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1/48 ModelSvit Yak-1B white 6 from GC 3 Normandie-Niemen - some questions
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Author Topic: 1/48 ModelSvit Yak-1B white 6 from GC 3 Normandie-Niemen - some questions  (Read 37840 times)
Basilisk
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« on: May 19, 2016, 03:05:11 PM »

Hello everybody and thank you Massimo to set up my account for me to join. As the heading states, I am planing to build the ModelSvit Yakovlev Yak-1B white 6 from GC 3 Normandie-Niemen flown by Albert Durand from Mosalsk during April 1943.

Let me say first, my knowledge on Great Patriotic War Aviation is very limited, so a lot of things which are maybe common knowledge for you are new to me. But I did a bit of reading and I found the post from xan on a similar topic very informative. http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=2100.0

If I read this thread correctly, GC 3 Normandie-Niemen received 10 Yak-1 in January 1943 and flew the type until July 1943 when they converted to Yak-9.

And at least two Yak-1 had been decorated with a sharkmouth. The Aircraft flown by de la Poype which xan made a model off as white 30 and white 6 flown by Albert Durand.





The question I have, are this two pictures of the same aircraft and the scribbles on the nose are just not visible in the in-flight picture? And what is the opinion how these scribbles came about as I don't think it is the remnants of the white winter camouflage.

By the way, white 6 is also shown on this YouTube video taking off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KavFAXDQzSg

The build is for the upcoming Great Patriotic War Group Build on Britmodeller, but I may document my progress here as well if that is ok as I am surely will have many more questions when making the model.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.
Cheers, Peter


« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:15:26 PM by Basilisk » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 07:17:25 PM »

Hi Peter,
I think that the photos are of the same plane, the other one has a very different sharkmouth.
In my idea, the strange pattern is not a residual of a winter camo, but a very rough attempt to simulate the skin of a fish. On the lower part of the sides I think to see a sort of dark rings, while on the upper part I think to see a pattern with black and light small dots on a base color.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 11:59:44 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Basilisk
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« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2016, 12:04:02 PM »

Thanks Massimo. I didn't think about this possibility, but it does make sens. Will be fun painting them.

The kit is still somewhere between the Ukraine and Australia, so I have to wait a bit longer until I can get started.

Cheers, Peter
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 09:18:52 PM »

Hi Peter,
I'm very interested to see it finished.
Regards
Massimo
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Basilisk
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Posts: 31


« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2016, 03:14:30 PM »

The kit with some additional goodies arrived finally from the Ukraine


In addition to the kit, I will use following extra parts:
- Armory PE set
- Armory Resin Wheels
- Quickboost exhaust
- DMM decals

This will be a slow build as all the parts need to be extensively cleaned up. But surprisingly the fit is very good after the clean-up.

It is amazing how well the small parts are defined. And with the addition of some PE, it will look great I think.

But I also learned that PE parts can be worse than the plastic part they replace.

Armory PE compared to the kit part.

And on the original.


It was also interesting to see that ModelSvit and Armory ask you to attach things wrongly.

The rudders are shown at the wrong location in the ModelSvit instruction and the rudder bedal are shown the wrong way round in the Armory instruction Shocked

At least when comparing to this picture. So I hope I attached them correctly.


But I am kind of stuck in building the cockpit and I wonder if a Yak-1 expert here can help me out.
The ModelSvit kit provides two control sticks (H6 and one with a ring grip). Which one is correct? All pictures I have seen of Yak-1 cockpits show the ring grip on the control stick, so I guess that is the one to go with.

Also, what does part E1 represent?


Is it the structure marked in red? Which I can't see on all the pictures.

And what is the devise fitted here marked in red?


It seems that it wasen't fitted to all aircraft as it can't be seen on this period picture.


In addition, am I correct in saying that the aircraft I am building was produced in early 1943 and had no landing light in the wing leading edge?

It would be great if someone can help with some answers, specially what part E1 is for.

Many thanks, Peter




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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2016, 06:59:13 AM »

Hi Peter,
I suppose that the ring control column was for early models of Yak-1, while the straight one was for late types. I suppose that all Yak-1b have to be 'late types', but I don't know for sure. If I don't miss, a similar modification was introduced on Lavochkins starting with the drop type canopy.
I don't know what is exactly piece E1, looks related to the gun. Perhaps a compressed air pipe.
the lever marked in red could be for the seat lifting in early versions. On Yak-1b, its hamndle looks different.
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 02:49:49 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Basilisk
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Posts: 31


« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2016, 02:40:25 PM »

Thanks Massimo for your reply. I did ask around a bit more regarding the control stick and apparently the stick change-over happened with Batch 158 to the pistol grip. Batch 111 was produced in December 1942, so I would think it is safe to say that a Yak-1b produced in early 1943 still had the ring grip stick. And yes, piece E1 is related to the gun to provide compressed air.

I got the cockpit nearly finished and painted.




To get the rest of the cockpit together, I need the wings assembled, but I wanted to add a bit of detail in the wheel wells first.


This part can then go onto the wing.


I do have some issues with the seat and the harness. Armory has a harness for the Yak-1 which I think is wrong. Apparently the Yak-1 had a Sutton style harness which can be seen in the picture below.

The harness Armory provides I have only seen in older Soviet aircraft like the Rata.

In addition, I have seen several builds where a slot was added to the seat backrest for the harness to go through. The ModelSvit seat back doesn't have the slot and I wonder if it the harness goes through a slot or over the top of the seat back. Unfortunately I can't find any pictures showing this.

Any help with this is much appreciated.
Cheers, Peter

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Basilisk
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2016, 04:36:19 PM »

Finally the cockpit is done - well 99% done. Spent a bit of time re-modelling and adding extra detail. Attaching the seat was a bit a challenge too.


And now all is in place and weathered. I redone some of the wiring and added the pipes from the radiator to the engine


This pipe seems to be the "hot" pipe and was insulated with some kind of cloth.




And here together.


I attached the seat pan lower as it was way too high in the kit. I also ended up adding a slot for the harness as I found some drawings having it. But I am still not sure if it is correct that way.


As soon as the Eduard harness arrives I can close her up.

Cheers, Peter
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4bogreen
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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2016, 03:00:39 PM »

Hi Peter,

Nice work on the cockpit! Your grey looks very good. Were did you see there was a ''hot pipe'' in the cockpit? i missed that one in my research. I have noticed that there are some Yak-1 interior things were present in the Yak-1B cockpit. like the oxygen system. Is this correct?

Regards,

Remco
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On the bench,
-Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1
-Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
KL
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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 09:11:21 PM »


... Were did you see there was a ''hot pipe'' in the cockpit? i missed that one in my research. I have noticed that there are some Yak-1 interior things were present in the Yak-1B cockpit. like the oxygen system. Is this correct?


In early (high back or "razor back") Yak-1s, engine coolant piping ran through the wing fairing.  At the same time when fuselage back was lowered, wing fairing was made "tighter" (this change probably isn't noticeable in any model which represent both "early" and "late" Yak-1s).  This change meant that the piping had to be moved inside the cockpit.  Engine coolant piping was normally painted in green, section that was in the cockpit was insulated.

HTH,
KL
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FPSOlkor
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2016, 09:34:21 PM »

I would say that FAS was made of canvas, and thus can not be blue - rather khaki
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4bogreen
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« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 11:46:19 PM »

Yep, just found the hot pipe on the photo's. It didn't noticed.

I think its made of hemp clothing material. And it has good isolation advantages. On to desk, and scratchbuild. I am going to build it with some thicker soldering wire, and put a tissue paper over it, glued with CA glue. Then paint it with Panzer Aces "hemp" color. Weathering is further done with a black and sepia filter (not a wash! The decoloration will be to dark...)

Regards,

Remco
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On the bench,
-Eduard 1/48 Messerschmitt BF109E-4 ZG-1
-Eduard 1/48 Spitfire MK.Vb 57 GIAP, Kuban
KL
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2016, 01:09:09 AM »

Maybe asbestos insulation tape??  It's light beidge, almost white (it gets dirty quickly...)



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Basilisk
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Posts: 31


« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2016, 03:28:51 AM »

Wow, I didn't expect so many posts after it was rather quiet in this thread.

Nice work on the cockpit! Your grey looks very good. Were did you see there was a ''hot pipe'' in the cockpit? i missed that one in my research. I have noticed that there are some Yak-1 interior things were present in the Yak-1B cockpit. like the oxygen system. Is this correct?

Thanks Remco. Your build looks very nice too and having the side panels removed makes things so much more challenging.

The grey is A-14 from the Mr. Paint range manufactured in Slovakia. This paint airbrushes very nicely as it is lacquer, but is very tricky to paint by brush for touch ups.

Yes, the pipes can be seen in the cockpit pictures of the preserved Yak-1b at Saratov.


A few things I noticed when assembling the cockpit. The placement of the side panels is too low in the kit, specially if they are replaced by PE. I raised them by 1mm. Also the seat pan placement is too high. I attached it nearly at the bottom of the seat back. This I think makes things look correct proportionally. In addition, the Seat pan is to wide as there should be a substantial gap between the seat and the side panel with some leavers in between. Unfortunately there is basically no gap with the kit seat. I noticed this too late in this build, but I may try to correct this if I build another ModelSvit Yak-1.

I actually have very little knowledge on Russian aircraft, but I learned a lot during this build. I think it is nearly impossible to get the cockpit interior 100% correct as changes had been made so frequent during the production of the aircraft - like the fitment of the receiver RSI-4 (radio) which was not standard on all the aircraft. Was it fitted on this aircraft? No idea, but it looks good fitted, so in it went  Grin Same with the first aid kit.

In early (high back or "razor back") Yak-1s, engine coolant piping ran through the wing fairing.  At the same time when fuselage back was lowered, wing fairing was made "tighter" (this change probably isn't noticeable in any model which represent both "early" and "late" Yak-1s).  This change meant that the piping had to be moved inside the cockpit.  Engine coolant piping was normally painted in green, section that was in the cockpit was insulated.

Thank you KL for contributing this information. Good to know that the radiator pipes aren't visible in razorback Yak-1s. Painted the pipe on the right hand side green - any colour variation in the grey cockpit are a welcome visual addition.

I would say that FAS was made of canvas, and thus can not be blue - rather khaki

What does FAS stand for?

Yep, just found the hot pipe on the photo's. It didn't noticed.

I think its made of hemp clothing material. And it has good isolation advantages. On to desk, and scratchbuild. I am going to build it with some thicker soldering wire, and put a tissue paper over it, glued with CA glue. Then paint it with Panzer Aces "hemp" color. Weathering is further done with a black and sepia filter (not a wash! The decoration will be to dark...)

Great that you can still add these pipes to your build. I used 1mm Evergreen rod on the right side and 1.2mm on the left. Looking at the cockpit picture above, I think only the left pipe is insulated (has to be  where the coolant flows from the engine to the radiator) which is why I used a thicker rod there.

Maybe asbestos insulation tape??  It's light beige, almost white (it gets dirty quickly...)

That is what I assumed too and I am glad that the light beige I painted the pipe with is close to what it could have looked like. Of course it also could have been painted green, but I like the beige, giving another colour in the cockpit.

I do have some issues with the seat and the harness. Armory has a harness for the Yak-1 which I think is wrong. Apparently the Yak-1 had a Sutton style harness which can be seen in the picture below.

The harness Armory provides I have only seen in older Soviet aircraft like the Rata.

In addition, I have seen several builds where a slot was added to the seat backrest for the harness to go through. The ModelSvit seat back doesn't have the slot and I wonder if it the harness goes through a slot or over the top of the seat back. Unfortunately I can't find any pictures showing this.
I still would appreciate some information regarding the harness used and if it was mounted through a slot in the seat back or over the seat back on the Yak-1b.

Please keep the information coming which I am sure will be of help to others building the ModelSvit kit.
Thanks to all, Peter
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 03:31:03 AM by Basilisk » Logged
KL
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2016, 08:32:49 PM »

I can't find anything about the Yak-1, but there is some info about other Yaks:

Check http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_p_1117857.html#1117857

Early Yak-1



Yak-1b drawings wrom Modelist-Konstruktor (representing Saratov museum Yak-1).  There is a slot on top view!



1942 Yak-9 from Zadorozhniy museum:



1944 Yak-3 from OKB Yakovlev museum (sold in USA, now back in Russia)



Yak-17



HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 12:38:15 AM by KL » Logged
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