Sovietwarplanes
September 18, 2019, 03:23:26 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: About the AE-9 paint.  (Read 6355 times)
AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2016, 10:31:17 PM »

Thanks Xan ! Remain just to understang how to post pictures here Grin
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5777


« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2016, 07:53:51 AM »

Hi Alex, welcome here,
It is very good to know the idea of who has seen the original exhibits. ALG-5, you think?
I am in doubt about the piece of TB-3. For what I know, zinc chromate went in use in late '30s, around 1938, and TB-3 were built before. Of course, it is always possible that it was painted during maintenance works, if the surface was accessible. Do you know where is the piece from?
If I don't miss, the outside of the same piece was utilized as chip for the colors of the '30s, khaki-olive and 3B.
I am not convinced that the original AE-9 was greenish, also because it appears always very light in old photos, nearly white. Such a color would be well suitable to hide a flying plane from below, but it was surely demasking if seen from above, and the addition of some green can't change this.
Besides, the most usual green pigment is chromium oxyde, that is very stable and can't disappear quickly for the sunlight. Yes, it is not the only possible one.
Another possibility, more likely in my idea, is that the bonder of the paint was somewhat yellowish, and this can turn a neutral grey or grey-blue into grey-green. It would be interesting to know if this yellowish shade was visible when the color was new.
Anyway, having original samples, there is a possibility: to make a chemical analysis of pigments and see if there are traces of some typical green or blue one. I wonder how expensive this could be. An expert of paints chemistry could help to understand how the look of the samples could have changed in 70 or 80 years.

To post pictures here, one has to upload them into another site (ex. photobucket), then to insert them into the forum by a link or 'image'. Inserting small thumbnails with a link to a larger photo would be the best thing.

Regards
Massimo

Logged
xan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 457



WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2016, 09:13:17 AM »

Alex just like in master194.
 
Logged

AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #18 on: September 06, 2016, 02:26:49 PM »

Hi!
Yes, Massimo I agree with you that the dark-green color could be 3BO color painted on external surfaces of TB-3. Unfortunately it is hard to know exactly on wich side it was painted in reality.
As concern ALG-1 primer it was designed by VIAM in 1937.
ALG-5 in reality was designed for metallic parts only as simple mixt of zinc-chromate yellow ALG-1 and  grey laque A-14. This paint was more resistant and with better adhesion because of hot drying.
That is why it became essentially popular on Soviet all-metallic post-war fighters.
But within war period it is known that it was used on some series of LaGG-3 planes' entire cockpits.

In any case we need more details from MAE and accurate waching of removed mettalic parts of their Tchaika.
I'm far to make any conclusions right now.
Especially it seem that the MAE's I-153 was assembled from few airplanes.
Like an example an internal side of the engine's top + left-side cowling panels looking as painted into A-14(? like cockpit door?) and having serial No. different from the airframe !


The comparison with original front cowling show clearly differencies between two colors and ALG-1 zink-chromate isn't ?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2016, 03:36:16 PM by AlexGRD » Logged
xan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 457



WWW
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2016, 01:15:39 AM »

Alex, that is what the germans went on:

konstantin will tell you better what they added....
Logged

AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2016, 06:53:24 AM »

You are right Xan.
All these replaced parts are described in previous post of Cyrille (Neoking) but unfortunately a lot of pictures posted by him few years ago coulldn't be opened and I don't know why.
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1000.0
Like this found hasardly

 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 09:43:16 AM by AlexGRD » Logged
xan
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 457



WWW
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2016, 10:38:36 AM »

it could be interesting to contact neoking to have project's news...
I knew the restoration was stoped by the moment...

Xan
Logged

AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2016, 11:07:12 AM »

Lack of funds and free hands as usual...... Grin
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 11:39:05 AM by AlexGRD » Logged
AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2016, 01:07:22 PM »

Another sample for comparison : inside wing-box on after-war Yak-9U from Monino (using flash). For sure there are no atmospheric or sun factors affecting on painting inside the airframe.
The question is how close is that ALG-1 from Yak to rear side color of the frontal cowling from I-153 ?

« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 01:09:42 PM by AlexGRD » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5777


« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 02:33:44 PM »

Hi Alex,
Quote
Like an example an internal side of the engine's top + left-side cowling panels looking as painted into A-14(? like cockpit door?) and having serial No. different from the airframe !


The comparison with original front cowling show clearly differencies between two colors and ALG-1 zink-chromate isn't ?


Do you say that the inner side of the first piece ia A-14 and the rear of the front plate is AE-9 because you (or other people) have seen different colors on the real thing? From the photo, this A-14 looks very light, but maybe it is overexposed. It would be good to see both pieces side to side in one photo.

Quote
Another sample for comparison : inside wing-box on after-war Yak-9U from Monino (using flash). For sure there are no atmospheric or sun factors affecting on painting inside the airframe.
The question is how close is that ALG-1 from Yak to rear side color of the frontal cowling from I-153 ?


To tell the truth, the surface with ALG-1 written on looks light grey to my eye. For what I know, ALG-1 should be yellow. Does the real piece appear as on the photo?

Regards
Massimo

Logged
AlexGRD
Newbie
*
Posts: 19


« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2016, 03:00:24 PM »

It is a little more yellow in reality Massimo. This is an dark environment inside wing-box and no possibility to take picture without flash  Undecided
As concern parts of I-153 we are to ask kind assistance of Cyrille to do new pictures and to wash some zones. It will be interresting for all of us.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 03:33:55 PM by AlexGRD » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5777


« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2016, 07:40:02 AM »

Hi,
yes, washing the rear of the front plate and taking photos with some chip aside would be very useful for our purposes.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
Psy06
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 69


« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2016, 12:25:18 PM »

Hi collegues, add my two cents.


This is shots made of myself of original parts of SB, with fragments of well-preserved paint:

AE-9



A-14



ALG-1 (or zinc chromate) appear under destroed AE-9 coat by 70+ years weathering

« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 01:41:24 PM by Psy06 » Logged
Psy06
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 69


« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2016, 12:53:36 PM »

To tell the truth, the surface with ALG-1 written on looks light grey to my eye. For what I know, ALG-1 should be yellow. Does the real piece appear as on the photo?

Regards
Massimo

Massimo, I agree with your doubts about original painting of last shot of Yak. Because at parts clearly visible marks of non operational repaintings, i.e paint is not original.
Logged
Psy06
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 69


« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2016, 01:22:58 PM »

2xan.

This engine is painted in random colors by museum staff and can't be used as a reference. I saw the AE-9 with my own eyes, and can say that it has nothing to do with the color of the engine housing. And by the way, you're right, AE-9 actually has a slight blue tint (but then I see it, it was in a deep forest, with notable shadow environment, and at full daylite may look some different).



Turret at photo don't have any signs of paint presence, i.e it's just destroed for years, it is plain aluminium, and even if the paint has remained there, it would have been А-14, because turrets was produced on a separate plant for different customers and never painted in the color of the aircraft, and A-14 was standart paint for such pieces of equipment (sometimes the ammunition boxes were painted in "army green" - nоn aviation color).



It is Pe-2 leg, AE-9 never used for painting this plane, paints at photo is A-14 and ALG primer.


« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 02:00:54 PM by Psy06 » Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!