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Author Topic: Page on La-7s  (Read 14600 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2017, 06:33:14 PM »

Hi,
I've added a profile to the page http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/la-7-postwar.htm





Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2017, 09:26:16 PM »

Another one of the same page.





Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2017, 09:15:13 PM »

Another one.




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Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2017, 06:49:01 PM »

Hi,
I have asked Milos Vestsik, the author of the monograph of La-7 of MBI, about the plane of Golubev. He hasn't further informations.
I would resume here some considerations:
on his memoirs, Golubev says that its callsign was always '33';
it is likely that he passed more planes (I-16, La-5, 5F, FN,7); it is unlikely that they all were numbered 33 in factory, unless he didn't order to repaint the number (apart for the I-16);
the plane with victories is certainly his plane because of the victories, but it could be either a La-5FN and a La-7;
this plane is not numbered 33, so he didn't make repaintings;
this plane is worn and already personalized, so it is not waiting that its number is repainted into 33;
the victory stars are cleanly painted over the retouches; they seem painted all together and later than the retouches; so, they could have been painted shortly before the photo session; perhaps Golubev usually flew without victory markings;
the first delivery of La-7 in September 1944 was of 20 planes, so there is 20% probability that there was a plane 33 between them; if there was one, surely Golubev would have taken it.
My conclusion is that the callsigns was not as the number painted on the plane, and that perhaps Golubev flew without victory stars for the most of time.
So, I have elements to draw a generic plane of the unit, without starlets; probably it'll be identical to the one of Golubev apart for the number (that won't be 33).
Any ideas?
Regards
Massimo

« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 09:29:01 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
warhawk
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« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2017, 09:43:56 PM »

Thanks for a very detailed and interesting update!

Aleksandar
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2017, 09:13:15 AM »

Hi,
a new update: Milos thinks to be able to decide the number of the plane of Golubev with victories from fragments of other photos; for what I can understand, these photos should confirm that it was a La-7. He has on work a new book on La-5 and 7.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2017, 10:27:00 AM »

...My conclusion is that the callsigns was not as the number painted on the plane...

Hi Massimo,
I do not know rules how to assign the callsigns, how VVS did it during WWII. However, board numbers were big, even outlined to be very well visible and easily readible during dog fights. It was vital to know who is sitting in the next plane when, for instance, was necessary to warn him against the attack from his back. It would be very confusing during such stressful situations to see one number and hear diffrent number...

On the other side, Pokryshkin flew different Cobras from his unit (his own "100", Sukhov's "50", Rechkalov's "PGA", etc.) and I wonder whether he always used callsign "sotyj", e.g. "the hundredth". If I remember correctly I read somewhere that he used (also) callsign "Tiger", which was indipendent from board number.

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2017, 11:01:08 AM »

Hi Misos,
I agree that it is confusing, but the opposite conclusion, that all of his planes were numbered 33, is uncompatible with the known photo.
I think also unlikely that the memoir of the pilot is so wrong, if he answered to the radio with that callsign.
Now i have to decide how to arrange that page, whilst waiting for new documents.
Probably I'll leave, provisionally, the profile with the conventional number 33, warning that the real number has still to be unveiled.
Or perhaps, I'll draw only a generic plane of the unit without victories and with a generic number. I will arrange the wire as on the photos, and numbers with black outline.
Any suggestions?
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2017, 01:12:23 PM »

Hi Massimo,
browsed through VIF, there is a lot of discussions about Golubev (the longest one is at https://www.vif2ne.org/nvi/forum/0/archive/46/46459.htm). Unfortunately no final resolution, neither La-5 vs. La-7 not 33 vs. other number.
Only thing that seems to be mostly accepted is that Golubev did not have 3-gun La-7.
Golubev achieved all his victories on La-5(FN), he had no victory on La-7, he flew it only since April 1945.
Interesting detail - Golubev's La-7 had reportedly donation inscription, but now photo is publicly known.
May be Russian speaking/reading members of this forum will find there additional info I overlooked.

...I think also unlikely that the memoir of the pilot is so wrong...
Even guys it VIF see memoirs as "artistic literature" written by a group of people (pofessional writers) approved by "so-called" author, some 30% could be historicaly correct, the rest are fairy tales /propaganda... It was also many times discussed when Pokryshkin's memoirs were given as a source of information.

...Probably I'll leave, provisionally, the profile with the conventional number 33, warning that the real number has still to be unveiled.
Or perhaps, I'll draw only a generic plane of the unit without victories and with a generic number. I will arrange the wire as on the photos, and numbers with black outline.
Any suggestions?...

All victory starlets seems to be painted all at once, probably after the war for "parade" photos. Same like on Kozhedub's La-7 and many other planes.

IMHO one generic La-5FN with board number 33 and generic La-7 with board number let's say 30 outlined by dark blue like this:

and both without victory starlets could be OK for war time era.

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #54 on: May 09, 2017, 01:27:04 PM »

Hi all,
please, have a look to the photo linked here, particularly to the La-5FN and La-7.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/34255681651/
I strongly suspect that the photo was made at the ceremony for the delivery of the first batch of La-7s to 4 GIAP KBF.
In first place, the photo is interesting because it confirms that the La-5FN had the rudder fully painted white, while La-7s of the same unit had an oblique white cap.
In second place, note that the La-7 shown here as representative of the batch is numbered 70, that is fully compatible with the mysterious number of the plane (ex-33) of Golubev:

It wouldn't be strange if the plane shown as representative was the one assigned to the commander of the unit.
Interestingly, the same number is shown on the profile of EP at
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/La7-3gun/index.php
even if he admits that it is only a speculation from what is possible to see on the known photo of Golubev.
Regards
Massimo


« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 01:36:05 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
barneybolac
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« Reply #55 on: May 10, 2017, 07:05:28 PM »

Hi all,
please, have a look to the photo linked here, particularly to the La-5FN and La-7.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/34255681651/
I strongly suspect that the photo was made at the ceremony for the delivery of the first batch of La-7s to 4 GIAP KBF.
In first place, the photo is interesting because it confirms that the La-5FN had the rudder fully painted white, while La-7s of the same unit had an oblique white cap.
In second place, note that the La-7 shown here as representative of the batch is numbered 70, that is fully compatible with the mysterious number of the plane (ex-33) of Golubev:

It wouldn't be strange if the plane shown as representative was the one assigned to the commander of the unit.
Interestingly, the same number is shown on the profile of EP at
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/La7-3gun/index.php
even if he admits that it is only a speculation from what is possible to see on the known photo of Golubev.
Regards
Massimo




Just to add more facts to your point.

Golubev in a couple of images.





https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsoviet-aces-1936-53.ru%2Fabc%2Fg%2Fgolubev_vf.htm&edit-text=

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #56 on: May 10, 2017, 10:31:14 PM »

Hi,
interesting images. The plane seems to have a white rudder, so it is likely that it was a La-5FN.
The beginning of the serial could say something.
regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2017, 02:10:41 PM »

Hi,
i've replaced the profile n.33 of Golubev with this one:

on page http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/la-7/la-7colors/10whitenose/10whitenose.htm


Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #58 on: May 14, 2017, 10:32:16 PM »

Hi Massimo,
compare your picture, please, with this photo:

It looks like:
- there is repainted area under the digit 7, marked by red arrows - repainted original board number?
- IMHO there is dark blue outline of the board number, pained not precisely on the edges of the digits,
- one antena wire on the photo is going to the bottom of the antena mast, not like on your picture
- what is staht dark area reaching to teh third column of the starlets - only a shadow or AMT-12 like on this La-5FN?

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2017, 06:34:23 AM »

Hi Misos,
you are very right.
Now I've modified the profile, modifying  the wiring, camouflage and the outline. I strongly suspect that the outline could be red and black instead of two shades of blue.
Interestingly, the peculiarities of the camouflage of the plane ov Golubev photographed behind him look compatible with what I think to see on the photo of plane 70 from far.




I've modified plane 10 too, in the same way (but without touching the camo pattern that doesn't look identical)
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