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Author Topic: Tupolev SB 2M-100A & SB 2M-103  (Read 348 times)
66misos
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« on: March 17, 2017, 08:08:49 PM »

Hi All,
here is my profile of Tupolev SB 2M-100A:


And this is photo of the original plane:


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: March 19, 2017, 10:07:49 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2017, 09:33:36 PM »

Hi Misos,
very good, as usual.
I see that the lower surface of the wing is rather curved. Maybe it's better to curve the star in the same way, if possible?
I think that there should be a wire between the fin and the stabilizer.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2017, 08:58:09 AM »

Hi Massimo,
thank for comment.
I will try to somehow correct that star, it is not sepparate layer, so I will see.
The light grey wire between the fin and the stabilizer is on the profile. That dark thing visible on the photo is IMHO fixing element used on parked aircraft to prevent moving of the rudder and moving part of the horizontal stabilizer.
Regards,
   66misos
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2017, 10:09:55 PM »

Hi,
here is Tupolev SB 2M-103:





Regards,
   66misos

EDIT: Incorrect profile deleted. New profile (red 7 with star) is bellow.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 06:34:02 AM by 66misos » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2017, 12:17:33 AM »

Beautiful profiles, Michal! I especially like the green over blue example.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2017, 06:37:58 AM »

Hi Misos,
good drawing as always.
The plane looks a very late production one because of the fixed intakes and the mast on the windshield. It could be equipped with M-104 instead of M-103.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2017, 09:28:45 AM »

Hi,
thank you for comments.

Massimo,
what exactly, please, do you mean by "M-104 instead of M-103"?

Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2017, 11:59:52 AM »

Hi Misos
I've a page on SB here: http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm
Anyway, that look is compatible with M-103 engined SB  built in 1940, exteriorly undistinguishable from those with M-104.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2017, 05:15:02 PM »

Hi Massimo,
I am afraid there are visible differences Cry
Here are same examples - at least 3 different M-103 engine cowlings, different gun turrets configuration etc.:


This one looks like the first one from the scheme above:


These both look like the thisd from the top (areal mast on the canopy, no turret on the bottom):



According to your http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/sb/sb-evolution/sb-bis-evolution.htm my "white 2" is "SB 2M-105 abandoned in summer 1941":

so I have to rework it, I need SB 2M-103, not 105. It is irony that I had it correct originally but I changed latter...

Regards,
  66misos
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 05:33:51 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2017, 08:31:21 PM »

Hi Misos,
the raised canopy of the latest SB 2M-105, you mean.  Well, you can easily obtain an earlier version of the profile too.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2017, 12:19:57 AM »

Hi Misos,
I am curious, are these SB and Ar-2 profiles for publishing or it's your personal interest? Either way you have to read Maslov's book. It is explained there that shape of engine cowling does NOT relate to particular engine type. Designations like "SB 2M-100A" or "SB 2M-103" are almost useless. The same can be said about everything that was written about SB variants before Maslov's book - what was previously identified as SB M-100A were likely planes with M-103 engines and frontal radiator etc, etc.

If you want to accurately describe SB variants you should use number of a Series, similar to LaGG-3 Series. The problem is that Maslov (or any other author...) haven't so far identified several distinctive modifications by the series number. So, good luck...  Wink



This particular SB is one of least known modifications - "SB dive bomber" or SBP. Those were made by Zavod 22 before it started producing Ar-2.
Some of the SBP characteristics:
- it was equipped with bomb cradle like Ar-2
- it had fighter type gun sight
- pilot's seat was raised so that he could see target over the plane's nose
- cockpit canopy was domed to accommodate raised seat
- "LU" ventral gun similar to one developed for Il-4
- MV-3 dorsal turret
- lowered (retractable?) back behind MV-3

HTH,
KL

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66misos
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2017, 08:37:31 PM »

Hi KL,
thank you for comment. Those profiles are for publishing. In the meantime I have got basicaly the same impression - just "SB" and some other identification - series, date... And yes, the first engines M-103 were installed in the same cowling as previous M-100(A). Even experts like Maslov do not make it 100% clear, so there is some space for artistic licence Wink
Here is current WIP status:

Regards,
   66misos
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KL
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2017, 04:38:43 AM »


here is my profile of Tupolev SB 2M-100A:


And this is photo of the original plane:



This plane is a SB 2M-103, not "Tupolev SB 2M-100A". It's one of those that Maslov calls "96th Seres"...   Lips Sealed

Plane was made in 1939, photographed on VVs NII Airfield in 1940. Maslov writes it was light gray, but considering time when made, it was probably silver.

HTH,
KL
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2017, 06:31:56 AM »

Hi KL,
interesting info Wink I found it somewhere described like 100A. I do not want agrue with Maslov, may be he is right. Note sharp shadows - plane was photographed during bright sunny day, but surface of the plane is homogenous grey, no bright shining od dark shadows on the wings/fuselage curvatures like here:

or more at http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1799.msg14803#msg14803
IMHO that SB looks more like light grey.

This should be finished profile of the late SB 2M-103A:


Regards,
   66misos

« Last Edit: March 23, 2017, 09:12:57 AM by 66misos » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 08:54:00 PM »

To answer your question, Konstantin, these profiles are for a book I am writing on Soviet WWII bombers. Any information you may have regarding the development of the SB, I would me more than happy to hear about, as not surprisingly there seems to be some discrepancies when it comes to designations (like the SB-3 - what was this - the SB 2-M103 or the SB-bis3? Was there even an SB-bis3?). My e-mail is [email protected] if you have any comments you'd like to send me. You and/or Mikhail Maslov will of course be given proper credit in the book. Thank you!

Best Regards,

Learstang
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 12:58:19 AM by learstang » Logged

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