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Author Topic: Il-10 108 gshap  (Read 2303 times)
66misos
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« on: April 15, 2017, 07:17:32 PM »

Hi,
I am goimg to draw profile of the Il-10.
Here http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il10/camoww2/camoww2.htm I found nice photo:



and Massimo's profile in 3-color camouflage:


However,
here http://legendary-aircraft.blogspot.sk/2013/03/Okraska-Il-10.html is 2-color profile of the same plane:

and they write that only first Il-10s had 3-color camo. Latter ones hade 2-color camo.

Here is photo of P.E.Ankudinov in front of his Il-10, summer 1946:

Dark area at wing root and also bright areas on the fuselage mostly match 2-grey camo:


I am a bit confused. Thank you in advance for any info.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 07:56:01 PM »

Hi Misos,
I can't say about grey camos. The linked text  takes the order of NKAP as it is, but as there is no photographic proof that this camo was really implemented on Il-2 and Pe-2, at the same time there is not evidence about Il-10.
Take into account that, if the planes of 1945 came out of the factory with a particular camo since the beginning of 1945, we should see dozens and dozens of photos of  planes showing it.


The photo of plane 34 shows something very strange, I am not even sure that it is a 3 shades camo. It looks made with disordered small blotches. I thought that it was a defect of the photo, but now plane 35 seems to show the same thing: small blotches in disorder.
It looks like that the plane was much repainted.
So I really don't know if it was with two greys, or if they received the plane green or grey and camouflaged it as they liked, or what else.
For contrast, the wing seems to show a sharp camouflage without strange blotches.

An importat thing: the rectangular air filter is a postwar style. The filter utilized during the war was smaller and ended with a drop shape, more or less as on Spitfires. No decent images available, sorry.

Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2017, 06:43:57 PM »

Hi Massimo,
Repainting is quite probable. Wing has clearly visible almost glossy color fields while fuselage looks matt with hardly distinguishable color fields. Moreover both fuselage bands and fuselage number are disappearing on the upper part, top fuselage seems to be repainted with the darker color. Compare it to Il-10 "White 35". Too many uncertainities.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2017, 08:21:42 PM »

Hi Misos,
I would suggest to choose a plane on which there are less uncertainties. One that is by sure painted with 3 shades, for example.
Please, keep me updated if you find other photos of interest.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2017, 03:46:08 PM »

Hi Massimo,

108 gshap was the first unit equiped by Il-10 planes and it started combat operations in April 1945 during Berlin operation. The first loss on April 30. By May 10, 1945 there were (only) 120 operational and 26 nonoperational Il-10 in Air Armies. Plus 12 Il-10 in VVS BMF.

I found these photos od Il-10 from 108 gshap:

Commanders from 108 gshap, April 12, 1945:


Squadron from 108 gshap (wonder if they had red tip of the spinner):


Camouflage looks similiar to this Il-10 from Far East during combat operations agains Japan:


And profiles:


Il-10, 108 gshap, sping 1945:



Sooo many options for such a short time period Huh

So I decided for Il-10 "White 2" from the photo above which seems quite well represents this NKAP 1943 3-color scheme:


EDIT:
Here is WIP of my Il-10 profile:


Regards,
   66misos

« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 07:57:33 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 09:39:37 PM »

Hi Misos,
thank you for the images, the photo of plane 80 is new for me. Imho, all the planes photographed here have 3-shades camo.
I suggest to modify the air filter and make it with a drop end.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2017, 09:54:10 AM »

Hi Massimo,
I found still these photos of the oil cooler:

and


Is that second and third photos what you mean?

Here is another photo of Il-10 dated on spring 1945 (probably from 108 gshap):

Note white tip of the spinner and white element of fast recognition on the rudder. And if I see correctly, also 2 white bands are visible on the rear bottom fuselage. Camouflage scheme is very similiar (almost the same) to camo scheme on the Il-10 "White 80" at the photo above. So only open question is board number.

Regards,
   66misos


« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 11:52:44 AM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2017, 09:38:05 PM »

Hi Massimo,

according to this article http://planetavvs.ru/krilya-strani/il-10.html it seems that this photo was made short after arrival of the new Il-10 to 108 gshap:


All these photos show different Il-10 from the 108 gshap during/after Berlin Operation:






They all show basically the same camouflage scheme - from te nose to cockipt and further - medium, dark, light, dark... color. Plus all from Berlin Operation has white propeller tip, two white fuselage bands and white fast recogn. elements on the rudder. No. "34" has covered front part but otherwise looks very similiar (as low quality photo enables to see).

Interesting info from http://planetavvs.ru/krilya-strani/il-10.html Sometime around April 1945 the 108 gshap shared air base with 11 giad, part of which was 5 giap with V.I.Popkov with his La-5FN.
I found quite interesting (coincidence?) that Popkov's La-5FN had also white spinner, two white fuselage bands (although in different position) and another La-5(FN?) at the same base in the background had also two fuselage bands and white trim on the rudder - same as white trim on Il-10 from 108 gshap:


Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2017, 10:32:20 PM »

Hi Misos,
the photos of the ventral intake are extremely interesting: one without air filter, and another with the early type of air filter that was fitted with the dusty season.



Could be that plane 34 or 35 were painted in this way when new.

All the planes are of the same unit? It's strange tat the markings changed so much. Could it be that some photos are of another unit?

Regards
Massimo

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66misos
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« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2017, 11:33:47 PM »

Hi Massimo,
"White 80" is from Far East, unit of "White 35" is not identified. All others with white bands and those with "White  2" are from 108 gshap. IMHO they all had basically the same camo - there were only about 150 Il-10 at all fronts by the end of war, no thousands like Yaks or Lavochkins.

According to this drawing Il-10 produced in 1944 had already that bigger filter.

Photo of "34" does not prove it nor negate it, so I will not change it in my profile.

Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 09:25:02 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2017, 02:13:16 PM »

Hi Misos,
there is writen something in the text you have linked that can help to identify the unit fighting in far east:
Quote
26 Shap 12 Shad Pacific Fleet Air Force

About the filter, I had a look at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il10/details/engine/engine.htm
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/il10/details/engine/compr-intake-1.jpg
Quote
Very early Il-10s, in late 1944-start of 1945, weren't provided of dust filter.

On April 30, 1945, dust filters entered production, and existing planes were refitted with such filters in a modified version that was mountable under field conditions.

Photos show that very early Il-10s have an intake whose rear profile is curved (Spitfire-like), but unfortunately none image is clear enough to see if there was a shutter on the front, as drawn on the schemes aside, or the inlet was free, as on the larger drawing above them.

I am still trying to understand if this thing is opened on its back.


Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2017, 09:26:00 PM »

Hi,
here is finished Il-10 profile:



Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2017, 06:22:20 AM »

Hi Misos,
good, as usual. But I would delete the light under the ailerons and flap and make uniform shadow there, because those surfaces are flat.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2017, 01:15:15 PM »

Hi Massimo,
thank ypu for comment. I will check it.

In the meantime, this Il-2 has camoflage scheme quite similiar to those Il-10 from 108 gshap, although it is possible to discuss what shade of grey represents what particular grey/green/light brown color:


Camo scheme on the left upperwing is almost the same as on Il-10 "white 2" and to Il-10 in front of it:

It would be interesting to see photo of this Il-2.

I only do not understand the very bright color on the tip of the lewt wing of the plane in the front.
Anyhow, also this plane seems to have bright tip of the left wing:


Regards,
   66misos
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