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Author Topic: Updates to the LaGG-3 page  (Read 3318 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« on: November 04, 2017, 05:04:59 PM »

Hi all,
I've updated the LaGG-3 page
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/lagg3.html
Apart for some restyling, the main news is the addition of 3 new pages with photos and profiles:

LaGG-3s series 60/70 of 926 IAP

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/georgia/georgia.html

LaGG-3 'white 38' series 60/70, probably 129 IAP in 1943 (the unit of Popkov)

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/curvedarrow/curvedarrow.html

Lagg-3s series 60-70 of 9 IAP-ChF and other units in 1944

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/9iap/9iap.html

Please, let me know any comments.
Regads
Massimo


« Last Edit: November 05, 2017, 09:25:17 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 08:10:42 AM »

Hi,
I've made some updates to the previous pages; the page http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/9iap/9iap.html now includes profiles and photos of planes of other units operating on the Southern front, as 88 iap. Here is one:

These updates were made with the help of A. Ruckovsky.

Besides I've uploaded a page with profiles and photos of I-301 prototype.

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/i-301/i-301.htm

Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 10:13:14 AM »

Hi,
I'm working on a page about pre-war LaGG-3s.
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/prewar/prewar.htm
Here is one, built in Zavod 31, one of 28 planes with spring 1941 camouflage:

Another plane of Zavod 31:

this was already drawn on Aviakollectsia, the light color being represented as silver, likely enough as it protected the underlying materials against UV rays

but it is also possible that planes were still in yellow primer/putty


Is there any suggestion to decide the thing?

Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 12:11:06 PM »

Hi Massimo,
very nice picture. However, why do you use "cherry red"? What color exactly it should be? I did not find it at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/color-table.html.
IMHO:
- it should be paint set for planes to have specific properties, standard paint let's say for cars would not be good,
- it was used on prototypes to be well visible during trials on the air and on the ground - standard red (AIIkr or A-13) for me seems to be more practical/probable than relatively dark "cherry red".
- standard red color could look quite dark on the photos, depending on the used film material and filter:



Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 02:59:17 PM »

Hi Misos,
I agree that a standard red could have given the same look with the proper film.
Anyway there are at least two cases where dark reds (different) were found on pieces: one is the 'moskva', sort of DB-3 utilized for a demonstrative flight to USA , that was partially painted red, partially dark red (few bw photos show the difference); another one is the color of the MiG-3 red 1 whose pieces are preserved in Finland.  I've choosen dark red in this case as a guess. Of course, I'm always ready to change it in case that new information should emerge.
Regards
Massimo
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Johann
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 04:25:49 PM »

Hi,
I'm working on a page about pre-war LaGG-3s.
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/prewar/prewar.htm
Here is one, built in Zavod 31, one of 28 planes with spring 1941 camouflage:


Тricolor color was at the plant No. 21 in Gorky
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66misos
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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »

Hi Massimo,
yes, I know about those two examples, but they vere not prototypes during trials.

Here http://walkarounds.airforce.ru/avia/rus/polikarpov/i-17/index.htm is another example of the standard red surface - prototype Polikarpov I-17:



Yakovlev AIR-7


usual interpretation:


Yakovlev AIP-12:

usual interpetation:



EDIT:

This photo shows that:
- there is a dark surface (color/primer...?) under the light painting at the wing leading edge and under the scratches,
- air intake at the wing root and part of the leading edge looks like painted with glossy/metallic color, while the rest is different darker matt color (exposed primer after final painting was worn-out?),
- light color on the surface does not look very much like metallic Alluminium color, compare reflections&shining to this LaGG-3:
 
- note the different color of the metal plate on the wing leading edge on the right,
- for primer I would use more ocher shade like here:
 
I would not be surprised, if it was painted in standard red & yellow color Huh

Regards,
    66misos
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:17:38 AM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 11:23:15 AM »

Hi,
Quote
Тricolor color was at the plant No. 21 in Gorky
you're right, I have to make some order.

Quote
yes, I know about those two examples, but they vere not prototypes during trials.
You're right about these prototypes. But, about I-301, there is one more consideration. Some reports describe the plane as finished in VIAM B-3 resin, that was red brown or dark red. Now, photos show that the plane was painted in uniform color on the metallic parts too, and it is unlikely that this glue could be utilized to paint metal; so, it was likely painted with some shade of red or red brown or dark red, that are undistinguishable in photos.
I can suppose that someone could have equivocated his description, if the shade of red was comparable with that of the resin. So i prefer to mantain the dark red shade.

Quote
This photo shows that:
- there is a dark surface (color/primer...?) under the light painting at the wing leading edge and under the scratches,
- air intake at the wing root and part of the leading edge looks like painted with glossy/metallic color, while the rest is different darker matt color (exposed primer after final painting was worn-out?),
- light color on the surface does not look very much like metallic Alluminium color,
- note the different color of the metal plate on the wing leading edge on the right,

These are interesting observations. I thought that the color of the air intake was unpainted metal. but the drawings don't show a coincidence between the panel lines and the silver area. So it was likely painted on.
Dark parts on the leading edge seem scratches, but could also be some adhering earth. I agree that the remainng part is not shining.
According to informations from Averin, this should be a grey-silver mixed in the factory itself. And another complication: this plane is of Z.21, while the nearly identical but marked plane of the profile is of Z.31. Were them painted in the same way? i think so, but...

Another thing: here are photos of another plane of Z.21, probably built before the three-shaded one; I thought that it was an example of green/blue typical prewar plane, but looking closely at the photo, it seems that it could be camouflaged with something scarcely contrasting.


Regards
Massimo

Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 01:39:13 PM »

Hi Massimo,

...Some reports describe the plane as finished in VIAM B-3 resin, that was red brown or dark red...
VIAM B3 was glue to connect wooden material and it could look like this inside of the preserved MiG-3:

The dark surface on LaGG-3 is metal and looks homogenous, very different from this MiG-3 interior, so the most probable it is painted with some relevat paint for planes. The only question is the color of that paint. And due to the reasons described in my previous post my personal prefference is standard red color. Of course, your prefference can be different.

Lightgrey & silver mix looks like probable, realistic option.

Then it could look like this 1-153 http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=2307.msg19947#msg19947 with ocher yellow ALG-1 partially visible under the worn-out light(grey) color on some exposed surfaces like wing roots etc.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 03:31:31 PM »

Hi Misos, good photo.
Are you sure that the glue employed is the same both for Lavochkins and MiGs? I would understand better what delta-wood is .
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2017, 05:04:53 PM »

Hi Massimo,

according to the www.yandex.ru delta-wood (дельта древесина) is plywood sheathing and bakelite ply, it could look like this:





I have comment info at scalemodels.ru: "I-301 is now drawn in nice red wine color. But in those timee they painted it with color close to (dark) brown."

"The prototype of the new I-301 fighter was painted with resin varnish No. 1, which was the same as VIAM B-3 glue, only of a more liquid consistency, and consisted of a phenolphaldehyde resin, acid hardener and ethyl alcohol or acetone. If such a varnish was used without a dye, then it gave a firm coating of red-brown or dark-cherry color. To reduce the resistance, it was polished."


Another nice photo of I-301 (LaGG-1):


Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2017, 06:29:48 PM »

Hi Misos,
thank you for the images and informations.
For what I see, Viam B-3 hasn't pigment to hide the texture of the wood.I don't think that it could have covered the whole plane, including the metallic parts, in such way.
Of course, the metallic parts could have been painted with red brown primer, but is it possible that the resulting plane was so uniform?

The photo of the plane is very nice, but I don't think that it was a prototype. According to Y.Gordon, that plane could be the first LaGG-3 built in Z.21. I think that this plane had aluminium prop and cowling and yellowish surfaces; I don't think that it was flown in this way. The metallic parts of the landing gear could be primed in yellow zinc chromate.
The yellowish putty appears in photos in different ways.
MiG-3:

LaGG-3:


who knows if it is the same color?
Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 08:24:09 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2017, 09:44:00 PM »

Hi Massimo,
I would say yes, or very similar. Compare also those green colors - simple different photos.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2017, 05:07:43 PM »

Hi all,
the page on prewar LaGG-3 was extended; I think it's all for now, unless new informations appear.
Some new profiles, although not too fascinating.









Regards
Massimo
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PG monster
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« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2018, 06:38:05 AM »

Great job!
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