Sovietwarplanes
October 14, 2019, 12:36:07 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Captured La 5 tested by the Luftwaffe  (Read 1938 times)
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« on: December 08, 2017, 09:04:16 AM »

I do not think there is a thread about this, at least I did not see it.

A captured La 5 was tested by Hans-Werner Lerche at Rechlin-Lärz airfield where an Erprobungsstelle (testing site) was located. This and more is described in his book 'Testpilot auf Beuteflugzeugen'

I wanted to post the original German report but have a problem with posting the images. Anyway linked here http://www.airpages.ru/ru/la5fn_1.shtml is its Russian translation I did not find a decent write up in English on the internet but maybe someone else can provide a link   

Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5788


« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2017, 07:51:57 AM »

Hi,
thank for the link. I think that the automatic translation is decent enough, apart for the 'jet' and 'afterburner' terms that look inadequate for a prop plane.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2017, 09:07:41 AM »

Glad you liked it. I am really puzzled how the ‘jet’ came up but concerning the ‘afterburner’ it is probably what in the Russian text is Форсаж  which in case of a propeller driven aircraft should translate as boost or a similar term. 
Logged
Johann
Full Member
***
Posts: 216



WWW
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2017, 10:09:33 AM »

Форсааж - the mode of operation of engines, used to temporarily increase the thrust in case of need (takeoff, air combat maneuver).
For jet engine is the same and acceleration to supersonic speed
Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2017, 01:00:57 PM »

Yes, except due to the difference in jet and piston engines it is something completely different.

In case of a jet engine it is an afterburner (reheat) which in principle works by  injecting additional fuel into the jet pipe behind the turbine which as it combusts results in an increase in engine thrust. The English word ‘afterburner‘ indeed translates into the Russian word ‘Форсаж’

However in case of a piston engine, which works on completely different principles, the word ‘Форсаж’ also means something different.

1.   In  order to increase the engine power output additional air and thus oxygen for the combustion process is supplied to the engine. In English this is called ‘supercharging’ or ‘boosting’ hence in case of a piston engine aircraft ‘Форсаж’ would be a ‘boost’ or ‘boosting’ alternatively ‘supercharging’ when describing the process.   

2.   The La 5 or more precisely its engine starting with the АШ-82ФН variant if I am not mistaken was fitted with a fuel injection system Инжекторная система подачи топлива or direct fuel injection system that is Система непосредственного впрыска топлива (непосредственный впрыск for short). In Russian the fuel injector itself is a  ‘форсунка’. Direct fuel injection both improves fuel efficiency and increases power output. In case of an aircraft powered by a piston engine ‘Форсаж’ can also mean using direct fuel injection which also increases that is boosts its power. 

Therefore in case of a piston engine aircraft ‘Форсаж’ definitely in not an afterburner but translates into English as power boost, engine output increase or similar. 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 06:50:44 PM by han9 » Logged
Johann
Full Member
***
Posts: 216



WWW
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2017, 04:58:35 PM »

I tried to explain the Russian termin "Форсаж". Without going into technical terms and details, as well as the principles of the action of various motors.
On piston engines, "Форсаж" serves to short-term increase of its power. And how this business is different. Water-methane mixture, nitrous oxide, oxygen - these are nuances.

And that would not produce misunderstandings and misunderstandings Engines on la-5 / 5f / 5fn - it's M-81A / 82F / 82FN, respectively. And АШ-82ФН it is М-82ФН But he learned a new barievature only from the second half of 1945 (according to the name of his designer A.Shvetsov)
Therefore, the engines installed on La-5, La-7, Tu-2, Pe-8 Su-2 Military periud are more correctly named M-82, and on post-war La-7, La-9, Tu-2, Il-14, An -2, the Mi-4 is the AШ-82
Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2017, 07:05:19 PM »

My principal idea was to find an English language term which would best translate the Russian word Форсаж in the given context. Since afterburner obviously does not fit in the context the next best English word is in my opinion boost.

But as I am writing I just got a brilliant idea. That is I am going to e-mail a Russian native speaking friend and see what he writes back.   
Logged
Johann
Full Member
***
Posts: 216



WWW
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2017, 08:22:23 PM »

And what can a Russian friend write?

Форсированный режим двигателя  - Forced mode engine или Increase engine power - Увеличение мощности двигателя

there are a number of words that are very difficult to translate verbatim or find an analogue. This is about the same as the search for an analogue of the English word cockpit in Russian.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 09:13:28 PM by Johann » Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2017, 10:00:06 PM »

And what can a Russian friend write?

For someone who knows it all obviously nothing of importance  Wink

For someone interested to find out something new or useful maybe a lot interesting things.

By the way cockpit is кабина пилота, кабина  летчика or just кабина. Sometimes in Russian texts cockpit is simply кокпит.  It is a trend to ‘domesticize’ English words. For example in German hardly anyone will say or write Pilotenkanzel most will write Cockpit with a capital C because nouns in the German language are written starting with a capital letter.
Logged
Johann
Full Member
***
Posts: 216



WWW
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2017, 10:32:44 PM »

Here. " That's the whole point. The English word cockpit implies in the Russian transcription the place of the pilot, and the "кабина" can be either pilot or storm ...
Although not with my knowledge of English is to write))))
Quote
Для кого-то, кто знает все это, очевидно, ничего важного.   подмигивать
Для кого-то, кто хочет узнать что-то новое или полезное, может быть, много интересного.

In such cases, the most suitable for "форсаж" is to be asked not by the Russian speaker, but by the English speaker. This will be more accurate

Quote
Pilotenkanzel
not so ? Pilotenkabine
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:43:52 PM by Johann » Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 10:01:48 AM »

Quote
Pilotenkanzel
not so ? Pilotenkabine


It is both – check the Duden Wörterbuch (Duden dictionary) which is pretty close to the ultimate arbiter on the German language.

Die Pilotenkanzel is synonymous with Pilotenkabine and Cockpit

The same for the pilot which in German can be Luftfahrzeugführer, Flugzeugführer or short and simply Pilot (always starting with a capital letter).

Probably there are also other synonyms for those words but sorry – too lazy to look for them now.

The thing is that in order to accurately translate a technical term from let us say Russian to English (or the other way round) one needs to know BOTH languages pretty good AND the technical field in question – not easy by any means!

Concerning форсаж and what it is check this out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DIRCiHv9Lk

Makes me feel more than ten years younger  Wink
Logged
Johann
Full Member
***
Posts: 216



WWW
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 11:52:18 AM »

Quote
Что касается форсаж и что это такое, посмотрите

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DIRCiHv9Lk

Again, the original title of the movie "The Fast and the Furius" What translates as "Быстрый и яросный"
But I can not agree more than the first parts of the film are really good. And yet, it seems to me - we have moved too far from the original theme
Logged
han9
Jr. Member
**
Posts: 91


« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2017, 02:37:05 PM »

Indeed but in case of a film it is licentia poetica which means almost anything goes. The fast and furious films were in Russia titled форсаж. Is it not an accurate translation but they were marketing a film not participating in an English – Russian translation contest. 

This is my hobby, not a full time job so occasionally I do diverge from the main topic, but not to move too far away I have tried to get to the matter form the opposite direction that is translating from English into Russian.

Here are the results for the word ‘boost’ when trying the English Russian Technical Dictionary and Phrasebook

http://dictionary.imtranslator.net/english-russian-technical/boost/

There are many translation results (also in phrases), the first translation result is давление нагнетателя

When it comes to a nouns it is: разгон, усиление, форсаж 

It means that boost = форсаж is among other results also correct, of course not the only possibility to translate it. In any language there are usually several words that fit.   

By the way, my Russian friend who is also a fluent English speaker wrote that форсаж could be boost or boosting but I have a strong feeling that he got that from having a quick look at a dictionary and not necessarily because he knew that – but again helping me out with translating is not his job. 

Anyway that was a challenging educational experience, I had to do plenty of checking and cross checking  between various languages which is also a good thing  Smiley
Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!