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Yakovlev Yak-9xx profiles
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Author Topic: Yakovlev Yak-9xx profiles  (Read 33270 times)
steph40
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« Reply #75 on: June 07, 2020, 09:08:53 PM »

Hello,

The last photo is Yak-9T "white 4" flown by Roland de la Poype from GC 3 "Normandie" (later Normandie-Niemen) during June 1944.

Regards
St├ęph.

Excellent profiles Michal, as usual  Smiley
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 09:10:56 PM by steph40 » Logged

1/48 aircraft of the Aces
PG monster
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« Reply #76 on: August 01, 2020, 06:04:29 AM »

We got good pictures of 89 GIAP yaks with visible numbers and insignias.

http://ava.org.ru/iap/89g.htm
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66misos
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« Reply #77 on: May 22, 2021, 07:47:01 PM »

Hi,
here I started work on Stepanenko's Yak-9T "Red 04":

Number 04 has the same shade of grey as the red star on the tail. However, tail cap is significantly brighter (light blue):




Plus another two photos with Stepanenko, although it is not sure whether it is the same plane:

Question is whether stripe on the prop spinner is (dirty) white, or light blue like the tail cap or red (note bright stencils on the prop blade), Red Banner emblem is still missing:


Note color of the red stencils on the prop blade and the red flag on the emblem - prop spinner does not look red:


Plus here is info about this plane:


   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #78 on: May 23, 2021, 06:54:14 AM »

Hi Misos,
I'm happy to see that you are creating another profile of Yak.
About my guesses from the photos, I'm very uncertain. I suggest to use the profile of Stankov as a reference unless clearly wrong. The light ring at the base of the spinner of his profile is clearly wrong.
Regards
Massimo
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PG monster
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« Reply #79 on: May 24, 2021, 05:55:20 AM »

I'm waiting for new profiles too.
And I'm skeptica about Stankov profiles too (in spite of hisgreat job with the photos)
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66misos
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« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2021, 11:36:00 AM »

Hi,
Stepanenko was commander of the 2nd Squadron of the 4 iap.
4 iap was part of the 11 cak before 28 Sep 1944 - all planes within 11 cak had red prop spinners.

4 iap together with 148 iap and 293 iap were parts of the 185 iad since 28. Sep 1944.
According to http://wio.ru/simbols/iad185.htm the Order № 07 issued in 23 Oct 1944 defined fast recog marking for planes in 185 iad:
- red prop spinners for all planes in 185 iad.
- 5cm thin stripe around the prop spinner, tail top and board number in the regimental color - blue for 4 iap, yellow for 148 iap and white for 293 iap.

Note the whole visible rear fuselage (between two left guys) is dark - repainted plane or wrongly retouched photo?


4 iap was awarded with Order of the Red Flag in 5 Nov 1944.

Another planes from 4 iap:
Note font of the digit "4" is different from usually drawn Stepanenko's 04:


Note the whole tip of the spinner has difafrent color, there is not only thin stripe. Board number seems to be 5 or 7:


Yak from 148 iap (http://airaces.narod.ru/all16/yabrikov.htm):


Yak from 293 iap (http://ava.org.ru/iap/293.htm)


So here is reworked profile according to the Order № 07. Not decided yet whether digit "4" to rework according to "White 41" above, or let it be as is:


Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2021, 06:15:55 AM »

Hi Misos,
I see that you have done a lot of research on this.
It seems that the plane 3 or 7 or 5x had the red paint extended on the base of the prop blades.
About the font of the 4, I would make it open unless differently proven, that style was vastly predominant on Soviet planes of the time.
The black part between the men could be a shadow projected by the low sun on the fuselage.
I've the impression that the number could be of two colors, possibly a inner part made in blue with stencil and a red contour made by brush or vice versa.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2021, 08:46:13 PM »

Hi Massimo,
thank for reply. Regarding "04" camo patterns:

NKAP 1943, http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/1943-45-fighters/1943-45.html:


Camo patterns of "Blue 41" fits to NKAP pretty well. Note AMT-12 field ends just behind the cockpit:

Note also that AMT-11 on the rear fuselage is lighter than AMT-11 on the middle fuselage in front of the cockpit, typical for Yak-9s, like here:


However, "04" has dark the whole top of the rear fuselage, or at least dark field (AMT-12) reach behind the half of the top fuselage. Is AMT-11 only behind pilots's head?
Anyhow, the image is heavily retouched, so question is, what in that picture is reality and what is artistic license. "0" looks like it could have an outline of the different color. IMHO it is only result of retouching. Also note the red star on the tail does not have thin black outline.


If this is the same "04", although from the latter time period, its front fuselage fits NKAP 1943 also pretty well:

However, if this is not "04" from the photo above...
...and retouched "04" photo shows only 4x4=16 victory starlets - according to http://airaces.narod.ru/all1/stepanen.htm 16 victories is from about May 1943, e.g. more than one year earlier than period we speak about  (late 1944) then it could have black-green camo similar to this:


or this:
Huh

Seems that heavily retouched photo of "04" is not reliable at all and it is more-less "artistic creation"...
Did have Stepanenko another Yak "04"? That plane from late 1944 should have standard NKAP 1943 camouflage like "Blue 41" plus about 35 victory starlets without Red banner emblem, or up to 40 starlets with Red banner emblem...

Regards,
   66misos





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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2021, 06:59:42 AM »

Hi Misos,
is it possible that the plane was built around June 1943? For a brief time, Yaks and Lavochkins were marked without the white outline although having a grey camouflage.
But, if the photo is of 1944, it is strange that the outline hasn't been added on.
By the way, i think to see the shadow of the photographer on the uniform of the man on the right.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #84 on: May 27, 2021, 07:16:31 PM »

Hi Massimo,
In June 1943 the regiment converted to the Yak-9, and in the late autumn Stepanenko received a Yak-9T with a 37 mm cannon (https://www.vif2ne.org/nvi/forum/0/0.htm)
I am more and more open to idea that there were at least two versions of Yak-9T "04" overall appearance.

The first one - dated to summer 1943
If we suppose that heavily retouched photo in not only "artistic creation" but it reflects reality to some extent - 16 victory starlets, number 04 has the same shade of grey as the red star on the tail, but tail cap is significantly brighter (light blue):

then I would say that
- plane could have either old black-green or already grey-grey NKAP 1943 camo pattern with some repainting in the rear fuselage,
- board number was probably red,
- prop spinner was red without thin white/blue ring,
- tail cap was light blue,
- red stars with thin black outline,
- picture painted on the side of the fuselage.

EDIT: I just found this picture from Stankov's book at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=68753&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Compare number of victory starlets - 24 - with the previous photo Huh And then trust it...
However, if 24 starlets is correct, then photo could be dated to September 1943, so grey-grey camo is very probable.

Anyhow, compare it to Stepanenko's previous Yak-9 "17" also from the summer 1943 with 15 victory starlets:


That time 4 iap belonged to 11 cak.

In 13 Apr 1944, e.g. several months latter Stepanenko was awarded HSU.

Another half year latter, in 28 Sep 1944, 4 iap together with 148 iap and 293 iap became part of the 185 iad.

After another month, in 23 Oct 1944, the Order № 07 that defined fast recog marking for planes in 185 iad was issued:
- red prop spinners for all planes in 185 iad.
- 5cm thin stripe around the prop spinner, tail top and board number in the regimental color - blue for 4 iap, yellow for 148 iap and white for 293 iap.

And finally, in 5 Nov 1944, 4 iap was awarded with Red banner order.

The second one - dated to late 1944
It could be either new Yak-9T or his old one but in the meantime repainted during very probable overhaul - it was already more than year old war machine.
Unfortunately no photo of Stepanenko's plane from this period is known. Stankov's profile is based on drawing of Stepanenko's plane mechanic.
So overall appearance of Stepanenko's Yak-9T from this time period is speculative.
So if I could speculate based on the mentioned info then I would say:
- plane had standard NKAP 1943 grey-grey camouflage,
- red propeller spinner,
- light blue tail cap, board number "04" and thin ring on the prop spinner,
- font of 04 same like on 41,
- standard red stars with white and thin red outline,
- about 35 victory starlets without Red banner emblem, or up to 40 starlets with Red banner emblem,
- preserved picture on the side (if it was old overhaled plane).

Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 08:57:08 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2021, 12:33:52 PM »

Hi Misos,
strange thing of the starlets... anyway I don'think that they have deleted victories from a photo, most likely they have added some.
Pity that the planes on the background appear overexposed, they don't give any informations on the camouflage.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #86 on: May 28, 2021, 08:32:55 PM »

Hi Massimo,

I cannot post article at this forum. It return this message:

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Database Error
Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator.

Could you check it, please? Is there any limit for the number of characters in the article?
Thank you.
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 08:34:53 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #87 on: May 29, 2021, 06:53:07 AM »

Hi Misos, I don't know. It writes the same thing to me too since a pair of years ago. It is a problem of compatibility between the old smf forum and the database language. I have to delete a file of all-identical error segnalations every week else it makes the available disk space full.  But it never refused a post. Please try again.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #88 on: May 29, 2021, 08:09:59 PM »

Hi Massimo,

I put to chronology the info I have found at Russian web pages.

May 1943 or earlier - 16 victories
Yak-9T was serially built at the factory N153 from March 1943.

July 3, 1943 - directive no.2389/0133 - the upper and side surfaces of all fighter aircraft have to be painted in greyish blue and dark grey colors.

From July 9, 1943 - 4 iap is part of 287 iad /1VA /Western Front
- Battle of Kursk - from July 9, 1943 to July 23, 1943

From July 27, 1943 - 4 iap is part of 11 cak /15VA /Bryansky Front
- July 26, 1943 - regiment received an order to fly over to the Bryansk front, and on July 29 they were already flying around the front line.
- from July 5 to August 6, 1943 - Military trials for combat use were carried out on 34 Yak-9T aircraft on the Central Front in 16 VA.
- After participating in the Kuban battle, the regiment relocated near Ryazan receives "new, more advanced Yak-9 aircraft with a 37-mm cannon". And immediately a tiger and a caricature of Goebbels appear on its white No. 17 drawn by a mechanic.
- August 5, 1943 - "17" is mentioned, as well as the fact that "the regiment is replenished with new machines and flight personal. The aircrafts were improved, they aquired new qualitative changes.
- Orel Operation "Kutuzov" - from July 27, 1943 to August 18, 1943.
- Bryansk Operation - from August 17, 1943 to October 3, 1943.
- Few days latter - based near the city Sukhinichi. And again Stepanenko mentioned "04" during flights from Sukhinichi airport.

September 3, 1943 - No.267 issued - red stars have to have outline with white line 5cm wide edged with red line 1cm wide.

September 12, 1943 - The last flight from Suhinichi airport before relocation to a new direction... and a month of rest and replenishment.

Known photos showing Stepanenko's "17" and "04" and paintings on his planes are from this "11cak /15VA /Bryansky Front" time period.

From November 1, 1943 - 4 iap is part of 11 cak /15VA /2nd Pribaltic Front.
- Leningrad-Novgorod Operation - from January 14, 1944 to March 1, 1944.

From September 28, 1944 - 4 iap is part of 185 iad /14 iak /15VA /2nd Pribaltic Front
- Riga Operation - from September 28, 1944 to October 22, 1944.

October 23, 1944 - Order No.07 issued, it specified fast recogn marking for palnes in 185 iad. For 4 iap red prop spinner and light blue thin stripe around prop spinner, tal cap and board number.

November 4, 1944 - 4 iap was awarded by Order of Red banner, emblem painted on the left side of the engine cowling.

Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 29, 2021, 09:12:56 PM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2021, 01:42:02 PM »

Hi,
here is my interpretation of Stepanenko's Yak-9T "04" from the summer 1943, when 4 iap belonged to 11 cak /15VA /Bryansky Front:



EDIT:
And here is my interpretation of the possible appearance of Stepanenko's Yak-9T "04" from 1945, when 4 iap already belonged to 185 iad /14 iak /15VA /2nd Pribaltic Front. There is no known photo clearly showing this plane from this late period.
I assume it is the same plane repainted according to the NKAP 1943, with with elements of the fast recognition from 23 Oct 1944 and Order of the Red banner. Picture of the eagle with the plane in the meantime got bleached and weathered.



Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 04:39:23 PM by 66misos » Logged

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