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Yaks with wavy camouflage
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Author Topic: Yaks with wavy camouflage  (Read 6384 times)
PG monster
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 10:13:16 AM »

superb!
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 08:27:58 PM »

Hi Misos,
I've asked to Orlov (via Maciej) about the use of greys in 1942 by Z.115.
He answered that he can't say, he hasn't studied the thing but it can't be excluded the use of colors different from AMT-4/6, but shades could be different from those of 1943, AMT-11/12.
Personally I continue to think that they were mix of AMT-7 and black, and AMT-11 and 12 were copied from these mix.
Regards
Massimo

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66misos
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 09:49:50 PM »

Hi all,
thank you for comments, I am glad you like them.
Massimo, interesting info, thanks.
Regards,
   66misos


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PG monster
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« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2019, 04:02:23 PM »

Hi,
while searching and collecting data for Yaks profiles I have found several pictures of interesting wavy camouflage.
Some authors interpret them as black-green, others interpret them as already grey-grey.

Colors on this Yak-9 are completly different from green MiG-3 and Il-2 in the background:


Another one, Yak-7B late, too bright for black-green, even on the bright snowy environment:



Regards,
   66misos


Perhasps too late, but I have to note : the grey camo was intoduced by the same order with the outlined stars (sept. 1943). The photo of winter 42/43. So there are 2 reasons for the green/black camo.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2019, 06:17:10 PM »

Hi,
the order to paint All the fighters in grey-grey was of summer 1943, but planes as this one, elaborated in Z.115, can be seen since late 1942.
These planes are identical, in contrast and pattern, to the Yak-9 that is described as the prototype of grey-grey fighters by Orlov in spring 1943 (perhaps it was the very same plane); being identical, all them have to be painted in greys.
Zavod 115 made both maintenance of planes built from different factories, both elaborations into different prototypes.  The lack of green pigments was felt in 1942/43, so the factory elaborated a new experimental camouflage since late 1942, official tests comparing grey-grey and green-black-brown camouflages were made in spring 1943, then the order to change the standard camouflage was issued in the summer.
After that date, the pattern of Z.115 was replaced nearly ever with the new NKAP one even on prototypes; only few photos of planes built later show this pattern again.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2020, 09:14:03 PM »

Hi,
it seems transition from black-green to grey-grey camo https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/1943-45-fighters/1943-45.html happened in several steps.

1. At the very beginning (1942/43) the wavy camoflage with light blue painted high on sides of the fuselage - at this photo is MiG-3 in foreground, next one is Yak-7B late "27" and behind it is Yak-7A "03" "Novosibisrskij Komsomolets". Shade of grey are on all planes the same, so also Yak-7B "27" could have wavy black-green camo:


2. from beginning od 1943 there are eamples of wavy camo, shades of which are significantly different from black-green, e.g. it could be wavy grey-grey camo.
Yak-9 from April 1943:



or these Yak-9 - wavy camouflage is significantly brighter than original blac-green, e.g. it could be wavy grey-grey camo:


3. Then there is grey-grey camo with light blue high on the sides, but generally already nicely resemble NKAP 1943 grey-grey standard for fighter - Yak-3:


4. Finally grey-grey camo according to NKAP-1943:


regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2020, 10:48:43 PM »

Hi Misos,
this theme is very interesting.
By the way, look at the different shade of the red stars of plane 27 and  83 on the same photo and under the same light.
Particularly dark stars appear on many planes with wavy camouflage, but one can think that this was the filter or the film to show red so dark.
The comparison on this photo let me suspect that the difference in the shade of red was real.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2020, 12:24:58 PM »

Hi Massimo,

AFAIK there were two red paint - AIIk (krasnyj = red) Nitrocellulosic lacquer and A-13 Oil enamel.
They probably had different appearance on the bw films (one looks a bit darker on the same photo). As an example see one victory starlet darker than others on the Klubov's Cobra:


Other thing is different appearance of the same aircraft on the different photos due to different photo material and filters https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/lagg3/57/white57.html:

vs.


Regards,
  66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2020, 09:07:51 PM »

Hi Misos,
I made some picks with Photoshop, and the difference in darkness is low, about 4%. Probably it looks stronger because of the higher contrast with the white outline.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2020, 03:45:53 PM »

Hi,
here I made a profile of late Yak-7B from 12 giap Moscow PVO. I decided for black-green camo, because photo should be from the beginning of 1943 and camouflage shades look identical with shades of the black-green camouflage on the other planes:



Here are source photos:






Regards,
   66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2020, 05:08:25 PM »

Hi,
here is Yak-1B from 652 iap PVO:



and source photo:


Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: May 01, 2020, 05:19:46 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2020, 07:38:54 PM »

Hi Misos,
 I am in doubt on plane 27, but plane 22 is obviously very light on photo, I don't think that the profile is right.
Besides the star and the number should be moved a bit down.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2020, 08:24:30 PM »

Hi Massimo,
thank you for comment. To be honest, I am also not 100% sure about colors.

With White 27 I have I pretty strong tendency to believe that it was black-green. Size and position of the red stars and board number was achieved by superposition od the semitransparent layer with the photo.

With Red 22 I am far not so convinced as with White 22. Yes, there are argument for both black-green and grey-grey. At least we have both alternatives:


I work on Yak-9 with grey-grey prototype of the camouflage. It will be surely grey-grey.
Seems it had rounded wing tips like Yak-7, not like late Yak-9xx:


source https://coollib.com/b/261705/read
regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: May 03, 2020, 12:52:01 PM »

Hi Misos,
red 22 is much better now. Just I would lower the star and number, look at the distance between the upper and lower profile of the fuselage.

About the Yak-9, my guess is for angular wings, it is visible on the left where the leading edge arrives straight up to the light.

Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #29 on: May 03, 2020, 01:47:38 PM »

Hi Massimo,
thank you. I would say red 22 is OK, check horizontal part of the side arms of the star vs. panel line below cockpit. Or, may be, both star and number should be a bit bigger. I do not know.

Regarding that Yak-9 - that prototype camouflage was presented in April 1943. Yak-9 was produced from October 1942 to August 1943. If that Yak-9 was new, then it was produced in the second half of the production, so probably not considered as early series with the rounded wing tips.

regards,
   66misos
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