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Searching for VVS Photos
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Author Topic: Searching for VVS Photos  (Read 204030 times)
John Thompson
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« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2007, 06:07:44 PM »



that's a DB-3 , not an Il-4
I'm not sure what version of the DB-3 it is,as I prefer the Il-4
(note the different shape of the nose)



Are you sure? (I know, I have a reputation for thinking *everything* is an Il-4, even a Bloch 175...) I looked pretty hard at that photo because I thought the same thing at first, and I think it only *looks* like a DB-3 because the extended nose glazing is missing. The aerial mast location, etc., seems to correspond to the Il-4.

John
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Renato71
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« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2007, 06:33:37 PM »



that's a DB-3 , not an Il-4
I'm not sure what version of the DB-3 it is,as I prefer the Il-4
(note the different shape of the nose)



Are you sure? (I know, I have a reputation for thinking *everything* is an Il-4, even a Bloch 175...) I looked pretty hard at that photo because I thought the same thing at first, and I think it only *looks* like a DB-3 because the extended nose glazing is missing. The aerial mast location, etc., seems to correspond to the Il-4.

John

I believe that DGM is correct on this one. I have few pics and several color profiles of DB-3 (especially of DB-3T) with that mast, often accompanied by a directional antenae (in teardrop shaped housing). Also, arrangement of windows on the side of the nose is more consistent with DB-3, and I believe that a small protruding on the nose (if you follow the shape of the nose, from pilots canopy, then downwards, visible just over the engine cowling) is that big bracket that separates gun glassing from lower observation window.

This pic is quite interesting. Looks like there was some sort of cammo below the "spray snakes" or it was added to it. Like they were trying to repaint it, and then ran out of time so they spayed the rest in hurry?

Cheers
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Renato
John Thompson
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« Reply #32 on: October 29, 2007, 01:04:03 AM »

Here's a good one - appears to be a Yak-1 (Yak-1b?) with white tail stripe and yellow (?) numeral "14" clearly visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Abgestuerztes-feindliches-Flugzeug-2-WK_W0QQitemZ160173950544QQihZ006QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #33 on: October 29, 2007, 06:40:53 AM »

Hi, Smiley
this is really good!
Massimo
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2007, 06:58:33 AM »


well, it seems that Renato71 is this forum's expert on the DB-3/Il-4...
thanks for clarifying these minute details.

John, it seems that this Yak-1b was repainted by the Germans , so sadly it is more 'meinie doodle'
(note the unusually rectangular area on the vertical fin/rudder and the unusually dark green of the base color.)

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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
John Thompson
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« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2007, 06:11:18 PM »



John, it seems that this Yak-1b was repainted by the Germans , so sadly it is more 'meinie doodle'
(note the unusually rectangular area on the vertical fin/rudder and the unusually dark green of the base color.)



Well, anything is possible, I suppose, and I'm not being defensive here, but I have some trouble accepting that the green can be judged on the basis of a black-and-white photo so well that it can be considered a repaint job with German paint. My guess was that it was a more-or-less normal AII or AMT black/green combination, possibly with some repainting of the fin after a repair. And if the Germans had repainted it (for what reason?), surely they would have obliterated the red star which is still visible on the fin/rudder? The fabric in the area where the fuselage star would have been located appears to have been peeled away by a souvenir hunter. I have to admit, the logic behind the original "meine doodle" concept escaped me.

John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2007, 01:49:35 AM »

I-152 with spatted undercarriage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Doppeldecker-mir-unbekannt_W0QQitemZ220166174839QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #37 on: October 31, 2007, 08:13:25 AM »



just in case you do not know what I am talking about here is the link :


http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Various/Markings/Doodle/part1.php

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John Thompson
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« Reply #38 on: October 31, 2007, 01:31:17 PM »

Thanks, DGM - it was this article I was referring to when I commented about the logic behind the concept, not your remarks, just to keep the record straight - I understand that Erik seems to have a basis for what he's saying, I just don't understand why the Germans would have done that. Too much time (and paint) on their hands? It doesn't seem logical, but stranger things have happened. A Hindu friend of mine once told me that Hitler sent a technical delegation to India during the war to study the Hindu deity Siva, who has the power (in legend) to create huge explosions, so who knows what might have driven the Wehrmacht to repaint destroyed aircraft!  Wink

John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #39 on: November 01, 2007, 01:39:44 AM »

Il-2 with unusual camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Stormovik-mit-Tarnbemalung_W0QQitemZ220165315137QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Another Il-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-JAK-Jaeger_W0QQitemZ220163937674QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nice shot of SB 2M-103 (NOT a Martin bomber, or even an Il-4):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Martin-Bomber-russ-Kennung_W0QQitemZ220163946240QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Po-2 with very silvery-looking *Ilyushin* in the background:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Doppeldecker-und-Bomber-TOP_W0QQitemZ220164657279QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #40 on: November 01, 2007, 09:02:59 AM »

Hi John, Smiley
excellent photos indeed, the first one in particular.

I've read the linked page. I didn't know it.
About the faked camouflages: at the start of the war the Soviets were full of silver and light grey planes, or, when things were good, with plain green uppersurface and red stars over the wings.
Stalin denied the authorization to camouflage planes and airports to prevent that it was interpreted as a provocation by Germans, in facts he tried to gain time before the war outbreak.
So, at the beginning of the war, when the air bases were attacked, each unit had to arrange to hide planes.
It is wrong to think that strange spotted camouflages required a long study and meditation in so hot days: each technician took a brush, the paint he found and started to dirten the immaculate surfaces. Besides, this required much less paint than a complete repainting of a silver plane.
No marvel that the results were strange: maybe, in the hurry, two men with different colors and ideas worked on the same plane on opposite sides.
There are many photos of strange camoflages on planes still in Soviet hands (I can link some), and, by sure, they didn't asked to Germans to paint them.
Unusual camouflages are rarer on later planes, as Yaks and Lavochkins, simply because they came out already camouflaged
from the factories.
About the famous MiG-3 n.9: on its fuselage and tail we see light rectangles due to peeling off the layer of fabric by souvenir hunters (the underlying color should be yellow putty). Two photos of this plane are known, and it's possible that it was turned on its nose for scenic effects. But, repainted? And why should they repaint it for a marvellous photo, and then to peel down its skin before the photo itself was shot?
Massimo
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Renato71
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« Reply #41 on: November 02, 2007, 02:54:22 PM »

Hi John,
Thanks for spotting this pics of great quality Smiley
I like the SB 2M-103 pic the most - one of the best I ever seen. Question here: looks like light gray overall?
The one with silver IL-4 in background is also great.

Oh, DGM, not much of a expert, just had few pics similar to above, but of poorer quality. You can see the layout of side windows on this one. As for DB-3 with antennas, here you can find several examples:
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/db3.html
And here is a DB-3 from almost the same angle:
http://www.airpages.ru/cgi-bin/pg2.pl?page=imgildb-3m
I like both DB-3 and IL-4. The first one looks like those designs of civil cars from 30's, just missing two headlights and a bumper Wink

Nice reasearch guys, many thanks!
Cheers!

PS - punch "ДБ-3" and/or "Дальний бомбардировщик" in google for russian pages
Further tech details (in russian, but useful drawings) http://www.eroplan.boom.ru/planes/db-3/db-3-1.htm
at bottom you have links for other pages [ДБ-3/Ил-4, ч.2.] [ДБ-3/Ил-4, ч.3.] (part 2, part 3)
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 03:01:05 PM by Renato71 » Logged

Renato
John Thompson
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« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2007, 06:55:45 PM »

Hi Massimo! You gave a very interesting and logical explanation for those odd camouflage schemes - thanks very much!  Smiley


I like both DB-3 and IL-4. The first one looks like those designs of civil cars from 30's, just missing two headlights and a bumper Wink


Thanks for the kind words, Renato - yes, the DB-3 does have a very "retro" look to it, doesn't it!
I enjoy looking for these old photos, although time spent at the keyboard takes away from time spent at the workbench!  Wink

One thing I am *still* hunting for - I *know* I've seen a photo of Mikhail Grib's late-war Yak-9U with the same "White 22" markings as his well-known Yak-9D, but it still escapes me. I've tried numerous Internet searches amd looked through all of my books, but I have not found it. I have found a few profiles and some "skins", but no photo yet.

Cheers!
John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2007, 03:40:32 AM »

Nice photo of Yak UT-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Rata-Top_W0QQitemZ220165382095QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Doppeldecker-Kennung_W0QQitemZ220165384199QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Crashed Yak:
http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-AK-abgeschossenes-Flugzeug-WK-2_W0QQitemZ290177890488QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's that strange Il-2 again, in a different photo:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russ-Stormovik-Tarnbemalung-Bruchlandung_W0QQitemZ220167464250QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2007, 07:34:09 AM »

Hi, Smiley
truly beautiful photos. The one of Il-2 is under the rain.
what plane is this? I suppose some Il-4 or similar type.
http://fotosoyuz.ru/en/catalog/picture/&png=418864&cntvat_pheCntr=5&vqFrnepu=1438022370&cntvat_fgneg=0?picid=fs-YSTINOV-02/09/Ust-0820.jpg&cat=418864&search=

Massimo
« Last Edit: November 05, 2007, 07:43:33 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
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