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Searching for VVS Photos
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Author Topic: Searching for VVS Photos  (Read 332581 times)
John Thompson
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« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2008, 05:17:23 PM »


calling that one a Douglas Bomber...
HA HA what a laugh!





And everyone thought *I* had problems distinguishing between Il-4 and DB-3 (or even Potez 175)! Maybe "DB" = "Douglas Bomber"? Wink Maybe a throwback to propaganda lies which tried to convince the rest of the world that Russia could not design her own modern aircraft, would have been overwhelmed by the Nazis without Lend-Lease support, blah, blah, blah? What *is* a "Douglas Bomber", anyway? A converted DC-2? A B-23 Bolo? Not exactly a big part of the VVS's equipment list in 1941 (or *anyone's* equipment list!), and yet I've seen twin-engined Russian aircraft photos on ebay.de identified as "Douglas Bombers" numerous times!

John
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Renato71
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« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2008, 06:36:48 PM »

Here it is; see the first of the three photos on this page. In it, you can see the Il-4 with that I-153 off to the left, and the empty barrels in the foreground; the other two are closer shots of that Il-4:
http://cgi.ebay.de/3-TOP-Technik-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Fliegerei-h2682_W0QQitemZ130187077926QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This might be the same Il-4, from even closer:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Technik-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Douglas-Bomber-h2680_W0QQitemZ130187077333QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Oh, yeah, I knew you were talking about these Smiley Been looking for them on my PC, but could not fount them... Well, it is IL-4  Cool

As for "Douglas", I think they were thinking this was A-20 Douglas/Boston, but at that time everybody were missinterpreting Soviet aircraft. If I remember correctly, when I-15's appeared in China they were called "Curtiss" by Japanese.

Cheers
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Renato
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« Reply #77 on: January 05, 2008, 06:49:57 AM »

Quote from: John Thompson
Maybe a throwback to propaganda lies which tried to convince the rest of the world that Russia could not design her own modern aircraft, would have been overwhelmed by the Nazis without Lend-Lease support, blah, blah, blah?

John

Yes , it is a pity that some people are still in the Dark Age !
[/color]
"Douglas", I think they were thinking this was A-20 Douglas/Boston, but at that time everybody were misinterpreting Soviet aircraft. If I remember correctly, when I-15's appeared in China they were called "Curtiss" by Japanese.

Cheers

ditto ! (see above)
[/color]
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
Renato71
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« Reply #78 on: January 05, 2008, 09:59:14 PM »

Hi,
I finished browsing that album which ChristianK provided a link:
http://news.webshots.com/album/550833578RUsEmU?start=0

Here are the most interesting ones:

TB-3
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2625668020089413999cwqfaO

SB-2
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2584911180089413999hjcQBp
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2711477860089413999qsDCSU
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2439740950089413999VZSqwb
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2769790390089413999qlGxHT

On the last one you can see a number "4" on the undersurface of the wing.

Cheers!
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Renato
John Thompson
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« Reply #79 on: January 07, 2008, 11:29:27 PM »

Interesting shot of a MiG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/044-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799990QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Another one of the same aircraft:
http://cgi.ebay.de/045-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799998QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

An A-20 (sort of a "Douglas Bomber", I guess):
http://cgi.ebay.de/053-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-Ostfront-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170183800082QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2008, 06:04:46 PM »

Hi, Smiley
interesting photos of miG-3. This is already drawn in my profiles as Overposed 14, and it's known to have black bands on the tail. I supposed that they were on all the plane, but these photos seem a convincing demonstration that they were on the tail only. I think that I'll modify the profile.
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2008, 06:29:51 PM »

Hi, Smiley
interesting photos of miG-3. This is already drawn in my profiles as Overposed 14, and it's known to have black bands on the tail. I supposed that they were on all the plane, but these photos seem a convincing demonstration that they were on the tail only. I think that I'll modify the profile.
Massimo

Thanks, Massimo - I'm glad my contribution might be useful. I thought I had seen this aircraft somewhere before, but I believed it was in a photo. Maybe a thorough check of avia-n-aero might turn up another image? It's really a great site for Barbarossa-era photos - I wish I could contact the site owner and thank him!  Smiley

John
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John Thompson
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« Reply #82 on: January 08, 2008, 11:28:08 PM »

Aha! Here's another photo of a MiG-3 which could be "Overposed 14", from avia-n-aero, as I hoped:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=5581&countdisplay=&start=0

There are some other images of a MiG-3 with the numeral 28 seemingly chalked on the fin which look suspiciously similar to Overposed 14...  Huh

I'll try to get time to hunt for more, after dinner and my daughter's homework are done!? Cheesy

John
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 11:34:09 PM by John Thompson » Logged
John Thompson
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« Reply #83 on: January 09, 2008, 03:11:28 AM »

Well, I didn't find any more images which are definitely "Overposed 14"; this one, maybe? But I can't see that lovely Russian birch tree in the foreground in any of the other photos:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4673&start=0

Despite a lot of similarities between that aircraft and "White 28", at this point, I think they are two different aircraft, unfortunately! I was hoping that the "28" marking might have been chalked on as some kind of (perhaps) salvage operation identification, but other photos show the marking was probably much more permanent in nature. What fooled me was the similarity between the ebay.de image (I'd suggest anyone who's interested should save it soon, before it vanishes off ebay):
http://cgi.ebay.de/045-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799998QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

...and these two, from a-n-a:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4488&countdisplay=&start=0
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4487&start=0

Details like the twisted position of the right main wheel, the undamaged prop blades, the dangling panel under the wing centre-section, and of course the missing wings made me think these might all be photos of one aircraft, but other details (trees in the background, etc.) are different. Oh well...? Embarrassed

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #84 on: January 09, 2008, 01:42:31 PM »

Hi John, Smiley
I've redrawn the profile of 14 and I'll upload it soon with 3 photos.
One more photo showing the intact fuselage was sent to me from mr. Peczowski of Mushrooms a pair of years ago. The fuselage was still intact and a red star was visible. It is somewhere on my hd.
n.4 and n.28 are not the same plane, even if some photos are similar because of the perspective. There is a profile of 28 too in my page.
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #85 on: January 09, 2008, 09:14:26 PM »

Hi, Smiley
I've uploaded the new version of the profile overposed 14, plus photos of two interesting models: the fine MiG-3 white 54 of Libor Jekl, already seen on the forum, and a MiG-1 converted from an Hobbyboss MiG-3 made by Uwe Borchert, a particularly fine model. Have a look to the Updates page.
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #86 on: January 10, 2008, 05:17:16 PM »

Hi Massimo!  Smiley  Looks good - thanks very much!

John
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marluc
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« Reply #87 on: January 10, 2008, 07:25:59 PM »

Hello everybody:

I want to congratulate Libor and Uwe,both made an excellent work in their Migs.Libor?s Mig paint scheme is quite attractive and Uwe?s convertion and painting? is very well done.Massimo,I like your article of "Overposed 14",thanks for sharing it.Best regards:

Martin
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #88 on: January 10, 2008, 09:04:57 PM »

You're welcome.  Smiley
Aesthetically speaking, the interpretation with the camouflaged tail only is more interesting, but I didn't dare to propose it immediately, two years ago, because I suspected that the reflection of the surface could have hidden the camo all over the plane. The images from the front-side seem to demonstrate the absence of camo on the fuselage sides.
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2008, 12:08:12 AM »

P-39:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Airacobra-Russland-Lend-Lease-RAR_W0QQitemZ150204468137QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John
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