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Bereiev KOR-2 paints some conclusions about soviet seaplane paints
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Author Topic: Bereiev KOR-2 paints some conclusions about soviet seaplane paints  (Read 1598 times)
xan
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« on: December 03, 2019, 06:25:19 AM »

Hi I built the Mars Models KOR-2 (or Be-4) at 1/48.

Here are some pics:









But the propose of this topic is not to show the model but to speak about this sea plane paints and perhaps do a general value for soviet seaplanes during and after the war.

First of all, we have to tell that there have been only 48 KOR-2 produced, so there is no plenty of documentation about it.

anyway I could try do study the diferent paints we can see in KOR-2 pics and classify them in a logical way....

here it is (sorry it is in french):



First were the two prototypes in aluminium:





Then we have a lot of picture of the plane n°28802 taken in sebastopol.


The plane seems to be paint in AE-9 (grey blue paint used for exemple in TB-2 or any metal parts) upside and downwside, with  A-24 green patches.
but this paint seemms to be an exeption.

the standart paint between 1941 and 1943 was as the model I painted.
A boat paint was used in all the plane. this paint was called grey ball n°30. they applied then A24m green patches above and A28m blue green below. The last paint was not strong enough to resist to sea landing.



A new camouflage appears betwenn 1943 and 1945:

AMT-10 green and Ocean green and A28m blue green below.

Those looked like british seaplane seaplanes colors (same problematic , same solutions)



we know with an official note that Be-4 built in Krasnoyarsk in Siberia were painted in green /black camouflage (A24m / A26m)



after the war planes were painted all in AMT-10 paint above and A-28m below.

Xan








« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 06:32:19 AM by xan » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2019, 07:08:40 AM »

Hi Xan,
the  model is beautiful, and your research is of great interest. Thank you for having posted here.
I would know if the colors listed in your color drawing are your interpretation from photos or if you have further sources.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2019, 07:13:54 AM »

Yes that is a beautiful model, Xan! Thank you for the research! This is one area of GPW aircraft I haven't really researched - water borne aircraft.

Regards,

Jason
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BLG
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« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 02:23:10 PM »

Hi Xan

Nice model and  serious research,  I would add "as usual".
As this post is about paint , I have questions about  Ae9 .

We know from a post written  here in 2011, that the Akan is false.

http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=1169.0

So, for the I-15 bis and I-153 I'm currently building, I bought AK real colour . I  was surprised to  have a near white paint. Yellowish rather than bluish. So I bought the Ataka, Its exactly the same colour. I would call them off-white rather than light grey.

 If we trust the color of this well known picture Ae9 is a very light grey, but bluish . Due to the bright sun and clear blue sky?



 Looking at the numerous BW pictures of I-15 bis and I-153, it's sure that the grey is very light, but bluish or yellowish?

I had previously used Humbrol 147 as recommended in a Britmodeller post and  was happy with it, except that it's enamel and coarse pigments.

Regards

Bernard
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 02:31:45 PM by BLG » Logged

John Thompson
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« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 06:09:21 PM »

In spite of having used it for Ae-9 at least once, I now think Humbrol 147 is too dark - I hope it wasn't me that recommended it on Britmodeller! The Hataka Red Line version looks better, and that's what I'd use if I was doing another I-153, although to my eye it looks slightly bluish, not yellowish as you say. Mind you, although I still waste far too much time comparing colours from different paint sources, I'm probably a lot less critical of the final result than most people!

John
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BLG
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« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2019, 08:30:38 PM »

Hi John
Thank you for your advice. I don't remember the author of the post. If you wrote something about Polikarpov, Ae-9 and Humbrol 147, it could be you .
What I understand is that  you confirm that the tone of the paint must be bluish (or neutral?)  and very light if you find the H147 too dark.
My hataka series is the orange one.

Regards
Bernard
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John Thompson
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« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 08:43:54 PM »

Hi Bernard! I don't have any special information on this subject; the best reference I know of is right here on this site:
http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/color-table.html

To me, the Ae-9 image looks very slightly greyish when fresh (but not as greyish as Hu147) and paler or even bluish when faded. I'm sorry - that's the best I can do!  Embarrassed

John
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BLG
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« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 09:18:09 PM »

Hi John,
This page is my reference for a long time, like numerous topics on SWP as I'm building mainly soviet planes. It's because the AK Ae-9 did not match with it  that I was in doubt. Theorically, AK as been advised by M. Orlov.  I will trust Massimo and the colour picture of I-153  which is given as original.
Regards
Bernard
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2019, 09:38:10 PM »

Hi  John and Bernard, I am uncomfortable with this milky AE-9 too. I've seen a photo of two or three exhibits (a downed SB, plus a fragment in some Finnish museum) and they looked neutral or bluish.
To tell the truth I don't trust too much the color photos of 70 years ago that show pink stars.
Of course, a light color as AE-9 is very vulnerable to yellowing of its medium, and this makes some of the modern exhibits suspicious. For example, I think to remember that a beige paint was found on the internal struts of the I-153 restored in Bourget; if that was AE-9, it was certainly much yellowed. I suspect that this is common to pieces preserved far from the light of the sky, that seems to contrast such yellowing.
Regards
Massimo
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BLG
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2019, 01:55:57 AM »

Hi Massimo
Even if the star is pink, I see the Ae9 bluish on the colour picture. You chip is more neutral. You have found the right word for AK  Ae-9;  "milky" . I have add some drops of blue . It's better and fortunately not greenish.
Regards
Bernard 
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2019, 10:35:55 PM »

Hi,
a photo with an exhibit painted with AE-9:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/img_1346851_1487244383_1487235994_psy06_research_AE-9.jpg.html
Regards
Massimo
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BLG
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2019, 11:41:45 PM »

Hi Massimo,
Thank you for the link.
The comment of the person who have prepared the chips to fit with the wreck is  as interesting as the picture.
"AE-9 in normal lighting looks like light gray with a light blue tint, if the element painted with AE-9 is turned to the light source and well lit by it, then it is very light (close to white) with a barely noticeable blue tint ...
Then this explains a lot, and it becomes clear why in the photo of the aircraft made on a clear sunny day, the duralumin painted with AE-9 looks so light (almost white)"

However , it's his interprétation and other forumers disagree:
"What is worn with this aero-9, like a hen with an egg? Here's how you can determine the AE-9 from this photo?Could there be a glare from the flash, from a flashlight or the sun? Yes, anything!"

For me, this picture shows  that the AE9 is more  close to white than I thought, if we can be confident with a piece of metal painted 80 years ago. So  AK is perhaps right.
Please , look at my I-15 bis, the prototype has been painted with AK Ae9 and Zakharov's with H 147. Your advice? Some, blue or and or black in AK or it's good like that?


Regards
Bernard

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2019, 06:03:12 AM »

Hi,
my guess is that a bit of blue or purple should improve the color of AK. But it would be good to know who has the exhibit. One could put some water on it to see if the wet surface becomes darker than the dry one.
Regards
Massimo
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