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painted fabric from Soviet planes
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Author Topic: painted fabric from Soviet planes  (Read 1582 times)
Massimo Tessitori
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« on: February 04, 2023, 07:36:18 PM »

Hi,
some time ago, I've received many interesting photos from Michael J Fuller, aka me109g.
Quote
I recently picked up a large quantity of Russian camouflage fabric and markings from a German veteran. He actually collected the fabric throughout WW2.
He kindly agreed to share the images, and here they are:





























Probably part of a Japanese plane, it is unclear how the German collector had this.




« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 07:41:36 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2023, 02:25:05 AM »

I saw some of these on eBay. I was tempted to buy some of them. That AMT-11, if that's what it is, does actually seem to have some blue to it. Interesting. The AMT-4 is close to what I've imagined it to be (I actually have a fragment of the wooden fin of an Il-2 with some AMT-4 on it - this seems to match that, not surprisingly; the AMT-12 on the fin also matches what is here).

Best Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2023, 06:40:58 AM »

I had the impression that one of the pieces could have received some blue shades from contact with some other painted surface.
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ChristianK
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« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2023, 04:12:41 PM »

Hi there,
I just discovered this thread and I am surprised that it got only so few responses. First: Can it be confirmed that these relics are indeed real and not just post-war fabrications? And then: Which one of these do you think shows AMT-4?
And: Could the very first one (captioned as U-2) actually be an example of that ever-elusive AMT-1? Sure looks like "dirty sand" or "coffee with milk" on my monitor. Okay, it has a slight greenish tint, but this could be due to the lighting conditions in the photo. Too bad we don't know when this piece was cut out...

Cheers,
Christian
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2023, 07:13:02 AM »

Hi,
of course I can't confirm that the parts are real, but I don't see the sense to make a fake of them.
I am surprised that the first photo seems brown on your monitor, I see it as green. Yes, the position on the top of the rudder would be compatible with AMT-1, but it just seems green.
Regards
Massimo
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ChristianK
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2023, 10:10:27 AM »

Hi Massimo,

yes, I guess this could also be a very faded and discolored green (especially when you look at the dark green folded corners on the backside) but to me the topside also looks almost exactly the same as Akan's AMT-1 used by xan in his Po-2 build here: http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=1585.15 (reply #28, it even matches the template). So I am torn..

(Another paint I have here and which looks exactly like the color in the relic is, funnily enough, AK Real Color's 061 Dunkelgelb 44).

Anyway, it was just a thought. I should have a look at these pieces on a different monitor..
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2023, 01:41:46 PM »



Hi, just to be sure, is this the image that seems brown on your screen? On my one, it looks definitely green.

Regards
Massimo
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ChristianK
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« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2023, 01:51:01 PM »

Yes, that's the one. To me it's a sand color, with a slight olive-green tint, but definitely more on the sandy/yellow site...
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ChristianK
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2023, 02:05:36 PM »

...ok, now I did just check on another monitor and there it's very much greener and definitely not a sand color. Bummer... :/ But impressive to see how much the color perception changes with different hardware. Sorry Massimo..
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2023, 10:01:08 PM »

How do profiles of green/black planes appear on that monitor?
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ChristianK
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« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 10:09:34 AM »

Hi Massimo,
just did a more extensive comparison check on both monitors (with your VVS website and some threads from this forum) and can report that this problem is most pronounced with lighter brown shades (the AMT-1/A-21 family). These appear much more grey on my monitor. A noticeable, but not as massive difference also plagues the very light (olive) green shades - like in the relics labeled U-2 and Pe-2 in this thread. The lighter they are, the more sandy/yellow they look.

Especially crazy were the differences in the depiction of the first two color chips from this thread: http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/board/index.php?topic=1585.15, FS 20324 and FS 20372. On my "bad" monitor both look like concrete, 20324 a little darker and with a reddish hue. On my other monitor they appear as a "normal" medium brown and a sand color. One should keep that in mind when speculating about AMT-1 and its derivatives. I will definitely cross-check all these light brown/olive colors in the future on different monitors.


But: Everything else (Like the green-black LaGG-3 here https://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/colors/1941-43/1941-43.html. Each photo with AMT-7/-11/-12 as well.) looks more or less the same.

Cheers,
Christian


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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2023, 01:54:46 PM »

Hi Christian, I see. I wonder how to resolve the problem of calibrating the difference of shades on a monitor. MI wonder if showing a chip of neutral grey could allow one to calibrate the monitor or his own perception. How do you perceive the chip of Humbrol 79 on the same page?
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ChristianK
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« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2023, 02:50:03 PM »

What do you mean? Nothing with Humbrol 79 on both pages...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2023, 04:23:40 PM »

I mean the chip of 79 on this scan.

Does it appear grey with a slight blue-purple component?
Usually neutral colors are those whose variation is more evident.
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ChristianK
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« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2023, 06:03:30 PM »

Ah, ok.

Yes, I see this chip as dark grey with a (very very) slight blue component. Purple not so much.
And they appear almost identical on both of my monitors. The "bad" one depicts it a little more bluish, but only to a very minimal extent.

As I said, in my case stark differences appear only with colors in the light brown/light olive green spectrum. Everything else is fine.

Cheers,
Christian


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