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Author Topic: About Vicente Beltran La-5 & Gulayev P-39 ?  (Read 12334 times)
steph40
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Posts: 70



« on: February 12, 2008, 11:06:02 PM »

Hello all,
 
I'm a French plastic modeler and I would like to build the Vicente Beltran (Spanish Republican pilot) La-5. I found an illustration in the Osprey of the Aces Nr 56 but I would like to know what could you tell me about this aircraft ?
So, another question, what kind of P-39 is here to represent a Gulaev aircraft: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=269.0
Is it a P-39N or a P-39Q with pods removed (like Rechkalov aircraft ?) ? This building is in my future projects too.
 
Thank you in advance, best regards
 
St?phane
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zhirohov
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Posts: 1


« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2008, 08:03:48 PM »

http://wp.scn.ru/ru/ww2/f/336/1/1/5
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steph40
Jr. Member
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Posts: 70



« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 06:37:45 PM »

Hi,

Thank you for the link... This illustration is the same as the Osprey Nr56.

Cheers
Steph40
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steph40
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Posts: 70



« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2011, 03:09:11 AM »

Hello,

I'm back after a long period spent for my son, my job and modeling kits too...
I continue my old post to ask a question about camo scheme of Vincente Beltran La-5 "white 84"... What is the most probable colors for the camo scheme: AMT4, AMT6 and AMT7 or a green with dark green and light blue ?
Please, I need your advice.

TIA, best regards
Steph
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Apex1701
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Posts: 123



« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2011, 03:21:08 AM »

Hi Steph,

VVS colors research shos that there is no green-dark green camo.
AMT-4 (green), AMT-6 (black) and AMT-7 (light blue) is correct.
See : http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/colors/1941-43/1941-43.html

and : http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=54267&hilit=vvs&start=50
The table on page 3 of that subject.



Jean
PS: je parle fran?ais alors tu peux m'envoyer un message perso si n?cessaire.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 06:08:01 PM by Apex1701 » Logged
xan
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Posts: 456



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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2011, 07:57:08 AM »

Hi Steph,
well this decoration is very original, I never see it before!
Is there any pics of the plane?
What did you think about doing the decals?
take a look at the web site to see the work Massimo done about the La-5; go inside each part, you will find a plenty of informations:
http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/la5/la5.html#cowling

I imagine that your plane was paint in AMT4/AMT6 (green black)
All the La-5 I seen were painted like that, exepting the white painted...
It had to be like this one of the 88 guard fighter regiment, I also imagine the lightning could be white instead of yellow



French modeler? in which forum do you post ? with which nickname?

Xan

ps:Tout comme Apex, je parle  fran?ais tu peux me contacter par MP.
    

« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 08:03:57 AM by xan » Logged

Apex1701
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Posts: 123



« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2011, 06:17:39 PM »

Hi Steph,

Use of AMT-4 and 6 was ordered almost at the time of Barbarossa and since La-5 enty in service was somewhere in 1942
they were painted per government's instructions; AMT-4, 6 and 7.

State of the art research shows that AII green and Dark Green did not exists.
There was a AII Green called AII Zashch. (zashchitnyi) that was a gloss camouflage green.
There was also AII (svetlo goluboi)  that was a gloss light blue for undersides.
Both were in use between 1937-1941.

Esp?rant que ?a aide.

Jean
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KL
Hero Member
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2011, 02:30:27 AM »

There was a AII Green called AII Zashch. (zashchitnyi) that was a gloss camouflage green.
There was also AII (svetlo goluboi)  that was a gloss light blue for undersides.
Both were in use between 1937-1941.

A small correction:  AII Light Blue was in use 1940-1941.
It was used for undersides of planes painted according to May 1940 directive (solid "Protective" green top) and for planes painted according to 1941 camouflage directive (AMT-4, AMT-6 top).
Cheers,
KL
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xan
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Posts: 456



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« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2011, 10:16:25 AM »

hi every body,
Steph told me by PM he was not sure the inscription of the beltran La-5 was really wroten in spanish.
I find quite strange the inscription :
"Viva la revolution socialista en S.S.S.R."
logicaly, it had to be:
"Viva la revolucion socialista en U.R.S.S."

Xan
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 10:19:28 AM by xan » Logged

steph40
Jr. Member
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Posts: 70



« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2011, 12:00:22 PM »

Hello,

Thank you both for your answer. The color is definitively AMT4-6-7.
Here are the 2 options regarding this aircraft (pictures found on the web, I think the first is from a Polish book (Ajaks), the second one from Osprey book).
Text in Russian...?


or text in Spanish...?

But like Xan said, why isn't written URSS (Uni?n de Rep?blicas Socialistas Sovi?ticas in Spanish) ?

TIA, regards
St?ph

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Massimo Tessitori
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Posts: 5718


« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2011, 02:26:38 PM »


Hi,
according to Orlov, the AII light blue was utilized even after 1941 in parallel with AMT-7.
Quote
In parallel with the AMT-7 was used the old dope for a second cover EN Sv.gol. - light-blue colour. The colour of it - really a light-blue, lighter than the AMT-7, almost without shades of gray. Academy of St. Nakraski goal. Albom in 1948 not because by this time it is no longer used, but retained the earlier archival specimens and the remains of the shell of the emergency aircraft.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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Posts: 1678


« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2011, 07:54:54 PM »

Text about Spanish pilots in VVS was published in Aviatsiya i vremya magazine No 2002-03

http://lib.rus.ec/b/206139/read

Profiles that appeared there are unreliable. Embarrassed  Artist S. Vahrushev is now well known for his illustrations for the new book about Korean war Mig-15s (again mostly made up).



IMHO, Beltran's La-5 is not well documented and all profiles are result of artis's guesswork.

KL   
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xan
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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2011, 09:01:54 PM »

Thanks you Konstantin for this information.
So we will not know much more about this plane...
Do you know if there is other exemple of spanish republican pilot's planes in USSR who wore inscription in spanish ?

Xan
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steph40
Jr. Member
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Posts: 70



« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2011, 10:59:56 PM »

Thank you all for your answers, your help and your precisions...
Xan, finally, my La-5 will be like you want: AMT4/6/7, text in Spanish (apart SSSR)... I think it will be my next build, I'm gonig to finish my W. Oesau Bf 109F-2 first...

Still thank you all. Best regards
Steph
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Troy Smith
Sr. Member
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Posts: 378


« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 12:04:53 AM »

Thank you all for your answers, your help and your precisions...
Xan, finally, my La-5 will be like you want: AMT4/6/7, text in Spanish (apart SSSR)... I think it will be my next build, I'm gonig to finish my W. Oesau Bf 109F-2 first...

Still thank you all. Best regards
Steph

Hi Steph

not the same, but on Aeromaster sheet 48-086  there  is a scheme for  Francisco Mereno, showing an inscription in Russian. 
I know Aeromaster are know as 'errormaster', but in the articles below it worth noting that the Spanish Pilots were not 'in favour' before the war, so Russian may be more likely. 

 http://www.squadron.com/ProfileDetails.asp?item=AN48086



build here
http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/cleaver/ussr/tmcla5.htm

some articles http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://spanish.ruvr.ru/2007/08/09/1100147.html&ei=eQnkTYToBMmxhQedu_HpBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CCcQ7gEwAQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancisco%2BMero%25C3%25B1o.%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DK5p%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26prmd%3Divns


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://estacionmir.com/Historia/eventos/Merono_Es.html&ei=8QzkTY2qKca2hAfA_eDqBw&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDsQ7gEwBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3DFrancisco%2BMero%25C3%25B1o%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DfJq%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-GB:official%26biw%3D972%26bih%3D637%26prmd%3Divns

may give you some more leads on Spanish VVS pilots.

HTH
T
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