MiG-3 seat belts

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi? ?
the MiG-3 belts arrangement is still an unclear thing. There is a drawing from Voronin showing the belts passing through a slot in the backrest cushion,

 so one would expect a slot on the metallic plate of the backrest, as on La-7.
But images of wreck and rebuilt MiG-3 don't show this.
I'm thinking: maybe the belts of MiG-3 resembled to those of Polikarpovs,
more than to those of La-7.
I'm suspecting that the shoulder belts were attached in the lower part, and
came up on the backrest. (see image mig3-15, on the lower part, on the back
side, there is a possible anchoration point) .

This would allow to the pilot more freedom to move forward and prevent only
his falling down in reverse flight , not his movement forward as those of
later fighters.
At present time, I have not photos of Polikarpov's belts. Have you anything
on this, please?
In the following link, tou see the back part of the front seat of an UTI-4. The anchoration point and the slot for belts in low position is clearly visible.
http://www.kartonwork.pl/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=409&sid=d0d88d4fb1059a1febff8b5594064940
I think that this hypothesis is the only compatible with the available
images of the metallic strut.
Who has ideas on this?


Massimo

[Audrius]

hi Massimo
there were no any slot in the backrest of pilot seat in  Mig-3. Have a look at the original backrest from the Mig-3 lifted from the Black Sea. This seat is now stored in Anapa museum. BTW the battery and blade is of Mig-3 as well.



It seems that the shoulder belts should be passing the gap between the backrest and the seat. Please have a look at the wartime I-16:
(the image from eaby. Now taken from russian modeling forum)



It looks like the belts are appearing from the gap between backrest and seat. The belts were hinged to the airframe just behind the backrest.
What is your oppinion?

BR Audrius

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Audrius,
thank you for these images.? I have had some exchange of opinions with Valera on these days too.
Now I am nearly sure that the back belts passed as on I-16, were hinged to the lower back part of the backrest (the likely hinge is viible in the image that I have enclosed) and passed behind the back cushion (when it was present) emerging from a slot through it; I've found an image of I-16 with extracted cushion showing this, and all this is fully compatible with the drawings of Voronin.
The lower belts are still a mystery: I haven't any idea on where they had to be hinged.?
I see two possible alternatives: or they were hinged on the upper face of the lower part of seat (where four small holes are visible; but the famous image of I-200 n.03 from above looks to discard this idea), or to the holes of the triangular plate sustaining the seat (this would explain why they were always unvisible: they fell outside the seat).
It's a pity that it's so difficult to insert images on this forum.?

This shows a possibility

this shows another one.? The second drawing is probably right for the upper belts, while the first one is more likely for lower belts.
Unfortunately it is vague.
I think that we should look for someone that has the possibility to see some polikarpov still existing in museums. Some French or Spanish sites could be good, but unfortunately I can't write in Spanish or French, even if I can understand what I read.

BR Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
I've discussed some new information on this at
http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=27949
Massimo

[Marcin Widomski]

So, on this picture we can see that there are two separate wholes for seat belts on the seat back. So it looks like in old Eduard photo eached parts. But the conection point seems to be behind pilot's back, not behind seat armour plate...
I'd like to finish the cockpit of my next MiG model and I'm in doubts...

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Marcin,
unfortunately, this is the only existing document on those belts, for what I know.
I have some doubts too. In particular, I don't see anchoration points for the horizontal rectangle on the photographed plates.
I suppose that it's part of the cushion that is locked by ties behind the seat.
Massimo

[Marcin Widomski]

I have never seen any holes in armour plate on photos of i.e. burnt MiGs taken during wartime. So the anchoring mechanism must have been hidden under the leather cover of seat back. And if we accept this drowing (sketch) belts should be saparated on the seat...