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Author Topic: MIG3 Ailerons  (Read 13368 times)
Lumbajack
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« on: February 09, 2006, 03:29:41 PM »

Hi all and and a heartfelt thank you to Massimo Tessitori.

I'm currently researching and collecting my documentation to build a flying scale model of the MIG-3.
This site is a real treasure trove of info on the subjected aircraft and I once again like to give my regards to Massimo for all the info and pictures on this site.
As work progress I will have a few questions and I hope this is the right forum to address.
I'll start off with a question about the ailerons of the MIG-3. What is the reason for the 'split' in the ailerons.
I've studied the pictures on the walkaround by Yuri Pasholok (thanks a lot Yuri) but can't find any mechanical reason for it other than easier removal of the ailerons perhaps. Anyone...?

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2006, 07:29:27 PM »

Hi Lumbajack, Smiley
It could be. However, from the drawings of Voronin, I see an actuating rod under the central hinge. It could be related to this.
Massimo
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2006, 09:58:08 PM »

Hi Massimo! Smiley
You are of course right. I had a look at those drawings as well and found the actuating rod for the aileron. I missed the obvious Embarrassed
The fact that they are 'split' has allways had me wondering. Can't seam to remember any other aircraft with this setup.
But I guess it's all part of the 'get up and go, no nonsence' Russian aircraft design.
...well... another design challenge. Looks like I'm going to custom make the hinges for the ailerons Undecided
It's a quite significant feature of the MIG-3 so there will be no shortcuts just to be able to use off-the-shelve hinges Wink
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2006, 07:41:53 PM »

Hi, Smiley
is this for a 1/32 model kit? It will be interesting.
Massimo
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Audrius
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 10:25:49 PM »

hi amigos!  Wink

takling about the actuating rod, the one you mentioned Massimo. There is some questions related to it looking at Varonin drawing. I can not see that rod in the plan-view, nevertheless it is in the cross-sectional view!
I guess it was just missed.

BR Audrius
 
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 02:40:17 PM »

Hi, Smiley
is this for a 1/32 model kit? It will be interesting.
Massimo

I'm sorry...it's a wee bit larger- 1/4...I think...and if all goes well...flying too.
I know this forum is for plastic modellers but there is too much good information here to be missed.
If you don't want me here please let me know Undecided
I won't boder you with RC stuff. My aim is to make the the model as close to scale as possible, all detail included and I have not come accross anything that comes close to this site regarding detailed info on the MIG-3.

I have built my fair share of plastic models though. Some years ago i allmost finnished a 1/24 Matchbox Spitfire. Allmost because I managed to ruin the front portion of the canopy/windshield with CA Cry. Does anyone know of any replasement parts for it. I could perhaps scratch it.

I'll post a picture of it...
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Audrius
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« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 03:04:44 PM »

I'm sorry...it's a wee bit larger- 1/4...I think...and if all goes well...flying too.
I know this forum is for plastic modellers but there is too much good information here to be missed. If you don't want me here please let me know Undecided I won't boder you with RC stuff.

Stop kiding Lumbajack!!!  Grin Nobody is going to throw you way out of here, that is a bull#$%@  Grin
We are glad that you joined us. It doens't matter what scale you do untill it is regarding modeling of VVS a/c. So keep us informing how is going with your RC model. It would be a pleasure for me to see it flying. That should be impresing.

BR Audrius
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2006, 04:21:23 PM »

Thanx Audrius Smiley

I have a long way to go...on the MIG that is. The main goal now is to establish an exact side view outline of the MIG-3
I have read the excellent articlehttp://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/lenght.html by Alexey Matvienko and based on that I'm close to
settling for the outline in Varonins drawings. I will take the the conclusion of the actual scale in the drawings into consideration when I produce the CAD-file. Are there any controversy on the scale sections in the drawings?
If we can conclude on the accuracy of those two things I can start to produce the CAD drawings and start the work on the plug for the fuselage.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2006, 07:49:15 PM »

Hi Lumberjack, Smiley
you're welcome, of course.
I have no voice of major critics to the drawings of Voronin, apart the length of early version.
I would add that the flaps in the water cooler inlet should be two (horizontal) and two (vertical), insteads that one (horizontal) as shown in the section.

Now I'm studying the engine and I have written something, but I have still doubts on some details.
In first place, I don't understand what are the two objects on the rear sides of the engine. At first I thought that they were oil filters, but now I see that they are connected to internal shafts, and not to oil pipes.
I'll upload some photos of them. I hope to collect some good suggestion.

Massimo
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 01:52:59 PM »

Hi guys!..and gals if any Wink

Still researching my MIG...next question...In Voronins drawing there are good details on the layout of the rivet pattern.
Are there any concerns about this layout?
Could anyone enlighten me on what kind of rivets that are used on the MIG-3?
I'm studying the photos on the walkaround and can't find anything but flush rivets. Does anybody know if they where used throughout the complete metallic structure. The photos of the canopy frame show some sort of countersunk pop-rivets.
Otherwise it seams that most of the fasteners are philips/posidrive or slotted countersunk screws.

Thoughts anyone...?
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2006, 10:20:44 PM »

Hi, Smiley
I think that Voronin's drawings are generally reliable, except for few things.
You know more than me about rivets.
Massimo
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Audrius
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2006, 10:36:37 PM »

Hello,
Your are getting deeper and deeper!  Grin
When one is making plastic scale model such issues are not always very important.
OK, let?s try to get some answer to you.
The ?nose? section- an airframe from spinner root to the backseat of cockpit was covered with 12 detachable plates (including cowlings and backsides of cockpit) with the locks type ?Dzus?. Sorry I have no the right name for it in English, but I have attached the cross-sectional and plane views of it.


Already being in serial production due to complains from front the cowling fixing was changed to a new squeeze lock , the one like used on Bf109. This was introduced from the 16th series of production.
The rest wooden airframe was covered with glued birch plywood of 5 layers (0,5mm each).

The central plane of the wing was covered with aluminum sheets and attached to frame by means of the screw bolts that helped for quick service and maintenance during the combat periods.
The rest of wings where covered like the wooden airframe- glued with the 5layers of birch plywood.
The connection of wings with central-plane was covered with metal plate that was fixed with anchor-screws.

Checking the pictures I would say that the screws and bolts were countersunk type.

BR Audrius
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2006, 09:50:33 AM »

Hi Massimo and Audrius Smiley
Yes you're right. I'm getting deep, but the funny thing is that it's getting more interesting the deeper you get.
With a 25% scale model these issues are of great importance, at least if you want to compete with your model.
Everyone tells me that if you want to build a scale model....do your research FIRST. I want to make a mold of the completed model and if I get the plug wrong.... Embarrassed....better not think of it Grin. When I finish the plug I'm going to take detailed pictures of it and make you criticize it before I make the final mold. Wink

I know of the Dzus locks, and I don't think they are called anything else in English.
All backplates and fittings and panels that don't need removing are mounted with flush rivets...it seams.

I have commented a few of the walkaround pictures. I'll attach them when I, have uploaded them somewhere.

Massimo..I have your new book on pre-order from Amazon since before Christmas...can't wait Grin

Thanks guys!
BR
Olav
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Audrius
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« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2006, 10:13:56 AM »

hi

>  All backplates and fittings and panels that don't need removing are mounted with flush rivets...it seams.

hmm Huh..actually I can not see any backplate that is not removable on the metal airframe part of Mig-3. There are plenty of vintage photos showing Migs cannibalized by Germans where all cowlings and backplates are removed.
As I mentioned in previous post there were 12 plates and all of them were removable. Don't be mistaken by tracks of rivets on those backplates that were used to reinforce them from inside. IMHO.

> I have commented a few of the walkaround pictures. I'll attach them when I, have uploaded them somewhere.

Do that please.  BTW for uploading pictures I could advice: http://www.photobucket.com
I am using this one as well. Works nice.

> Massimo..I have your new book on pre-order from Amazon since before Christmas...can't wait Grin

Wow, wow!!!  Shocked Am I right that there is an announcement about the Massimo's book on Amazon.com??? I could not find it there. Could you provide the link please?

BR Audrius
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Lumbajack
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« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2006, 12:14:50 PM »

...well...backplates....wrong word...sorry Undecided
All fittings and stringers etc would be more correct. The top side of the wing seams to be without to many hatches and panels.
When I had a closer look at the pictures from MiG-3 restoration by Aviarestoration it's quite obvious that most of the panels are detachable

Are you telling me that you have not pre-ordered Massimos book Shocked.... Grin
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/8389450267/qid=1141121745/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_0_2/202-5372753-4683864
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