Question on I-16 by Bert Andermann

[Massimo Tessitori]

Here I post a question by Bert Andermann:

Hi Massimo,
registration is still disabled. Can you post my question?

I want to finish my ICM I-16 type 24 and my question is about a curious
colour scheme. E. Pilawskii has discussed it here
(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/I16/artdeco-i16.php) but it could be
a little different.

a) Overall colour: grey or silver-grey?
b) Stars: silver or golden?

Thanks
Bert

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Bert (funny, in some way I'm replying to my own post),
in my idea the interpretation of that photo as gloss grey and silver, possibly with black outlines, is reasonable. I suppose that golden stars would appear darker, and silver-grey would reflect in different way.
The fact that the wing reflects the dark details of the fuselage is an indication of a polished surface.
Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
on request of K. Lesnkov, I add here his considerations:

Hi Massimo and Bert,
 
Just a few comments after reading Erik's original page:
 
There is some interesting information that explains origin of the photo and later addendum which reveals unit to which airplanes belonged.? The rest is pure speculation.
There is no need for a conspiracy theory - airplanes painted in curious paint scheme to mislead Western observers!!!? Overall light gray was standard camouflage scheme from early 1939 to Mid 1940.? Red star outlined in black was standard VVS insignia in 1940 and 1941.
 
It is true that fuselage stars look more reflective than surrounding gray, but I would explain this as a result of glossy surface (glossy red in this case). Compare fuselage stars with the engine cowling ring (made of polished steel) to get an idea of a material of similar reflectivity.? Then compare fuselage stars with wing stars for same colour/paint at two different angles to the light source.
 
My interpretation would be 1939 ligth gray scheme with glossy red stars.
 
In general, I would be very cautious with interpretations which show red stars in any other colour then red.? "Red Star" had a special place in socialist iconography.? It wasn't just the shape, it was the colour too.? Like Japanese Hinomaru, only the red circle is identified as a Japanese symbol.? Have you ever seen a Japanese aircraft with silver Hinomarus??? Or red swastikas??? Sometimes you can't play with colours - if you change green colour of the Italian flag to blue, the flag is not Italian any more.
 
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for your opinion.
It's possible that a photo made with a red filter on the camera turns red into a lighter color.
Massimo

[marluc]

My interpretation would be 1939 ligth gray scheme with glossy red stars.
 
..."Red Star" had a special place in socialist iconography.? It wasn't just the shape, it was the colour too.?

Good interpretation Konstantin,thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.Best regards:

Martin

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
another question by Bert:

Hi Massimo,
I have another question about the paint scheme of my I-16. Is it light
grey or light grey with a little bit blue? I'am confused because Amodel
advise Humbrol 147 for a similar paint scheme.

Bert

I think that it's a very light grey without any blue. Who could help with better informations?

Massimo

[John Thompson]

Wouldn't the light grey be AEh-9 (described by one source as FS25630)? I believe it's available from WEM, but I don't know what colours are equivalent from any other manufacturers. The sometimes-useful Scalemodels.ru colour page doesn't list AEh-9, unfortunately:
http://scalewiki.ru/%d0%b0%d0%bc%d1%82

John

[John Thompson]

Further to the subject of AEh-9, I did some digging among my paint stash and discovered a tinlet of Humbrol 147 as per Bert's question. Comparing this with the FS595 25630 colour chip, it appears to be very close to a match. If you follow the theory that no one really knows exactly what AEh-9 was (or any other colour, for that matter), then Hu147 is certainly a very good approximation. If you want to try to match Hu147 *exactly* to FS25630 for whatever reason, add a dash of white; maybe 10%?

Bottom line - if I was building a model and wanted to finish it in AEh-9, Humbrol 147 would be good enough for me!

John

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you John. . I'll inform Bert.
Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Massimo and Thompson,
thanks for the circumstances but I can't believe that H147 is a good
choise for my model because my aircraft looks quite dark.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
here is a mail by K. Lesnikov

Hi Massimo,
 
a few comments on Bert's post on sovietwarplanes.com forum:
 
I started a tread about silver/silver-gray/gray I-16 on scalemodels.ru forum some three weeks ago.? Check it at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_14714.html

 
You will find some interesting information.? In short:
 
there is a general consensus that photos show "Krasnaya Pyaterka" (The Red Fives) aerobatic team.? Most likely the photo was taken shortly before the group was desolved.? Their last performance was on Nov 07, 1940.? On one of the photos, the pilot is identified as Grashtsenkov.
Planes are painted in a non-standard scheme.? I-16 Type 24 made before May 1940 were painted silver lower surface - dark green upper? upper surfaces and those made after May 1940 were painted light blue lower surface - dark green upper surfaces.
Stars were definitevily red.? Check all the tests done by Photoshop experts!? More precisely, the stars were glossy red outlined in black.
IMHO non-standard silver or silver-gray are more likely than standard light gray AE-9.? Just compare "Krasnaya Pyaterka" I-16s with series I-153s painted in light gray AE-9.? Light gray I-153 photos can be found on http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/.
 
Attached are three "Krasnaya Pyaterka" photos I found on the web and profile from the last Maslov's book about I-16.
 
Hope this helps.
 
Cheers,
Konstantin

[Massimo Tessitori]

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you very much, Konstantin.
To tell the truth, I don't have the impression of a metalized surface. There is a low sun creating dark shades on the upper part of the fuselage, but not metalic shining. that should be visible even in the shadowed undersurfaces (it should reflect the highlighted ground).
Massimo

[John Thompson]

Oops - I'm sorry; for some reason I jumped to the conclusion that it was AEh-9 (or AE-9) we were talking about. I see now that it might be something else, but if it was some kind of special, non-standard paint colour (and not aluminum, either), then we will probably never know what it was with any certainty. But at least I learned something useful about Humbrol 147!

John

[marluc]

Thanks Konstantin for your comment.I?ve been following your thread on scalemodels.ru,but sometimes it?s hard to understand the translation,now it?s a lot more clear to me.Interesting thread by the way.
Greetings.

Martin