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Author Topic: Nose colour of La-5FN 2GIAP  (Read 13305 times)
marluc
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« on: September 06, 2009, 05:38:55 PM »

Hello everybody:

The nose colour of La-5FN "white 52" 2GIAP,red or yellow?


Thanks in advance,greetings.

Martin
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John Thompson
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« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2009, 08:32:04 PM »

Hi Martin! Good luck on that one; I took a quick look at several references and got just as many different answers:
Wings Palette first of three profiles - yellow cowling front, dark green spinner (but the overall colours on this profile are dark green and brown!)
Wings Palette second profile - red cowling front, yellow spinner
Wings Palette third profile - yellow cowling front, AMT-12 (?) spinner
Instructions from Avalon decal sheet 7202 - yellow cowling front, yellow spinner
Erik Pilawskii's "Lavochkin Piston-Engined Fighters" CD - WHITE cowling front, AMT-11 spinner
Nothing in EP's "Soviet Air Force Fighter Colours"; nothing in the MBI La-5 monograph.

Obviously no one has any idea what it really was - another opportunity to "Do what you want, and let the critics prove you wrong!", I think! Wink

As has been suggested elsewhere, though, large applications of yellow, especially on the nose, would seem very unlikely, considering that the Luftwaffe used this colour/location as an identification feature for their own aircraft on the Russian front!

John
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marluc
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« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2009, 08:48:58 PM »

Hi John,thanks for your help.I?ve already checked EP?s book and MBI monograph.I?ve found a profile in Osprey?s "Lagg and Lavochkin Aces of WW2" with yellow front cowling and red spinner and the same photo as the one I posted but showing the (yellow?) dedication text.
Quoting you,it?s a case of "Do what you want, and let the critics prove you wrong!"
Best regards:

Martin
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2009, 10:22:25 PM »

Hi, Smiley
comparing the shade of the star to that of the cowling ring, one can exclude that it was red.
I don't think it was yelow, except otherwise proved, because it was the color of Axis planes.
I think that white is likely. As a second choice, it could be light blue.
About the spinner: in my idea it could be white too. The prop blade root looks to have a white brush stroke, it's possible that spinners were painted with brush without masking, so the blade received an unintentional brush stroke.
Note the possibly white prop tips.
I suppose that the light source is on the right.
Massimo
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Apex1701
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« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2009, 10:23:10 PM »

Hi Martin,

on scalemodels.ru a guys had done it with a red nose.

Here's the link to the translation
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D9822%26postdays%3D0%26postorder%3Dasc%26%26start%3D0&sl=ru&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Hope this helps.

Jean
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marluc
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« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2009, 11:41:40 PM »

Thanks Massimo for your interpretetion and Jean for the link,both very useful.In Scalemodels there is one photo where the unintentional brush (or airbrush?) stroke mentioned by Massimo can be seen clearly.Best regards.

Martin
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John Thompson
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« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2009, 02:31:38 AM »

A minor point, but the bright-coloured area at the base of the prop blade is actually some kind of marking or specially-prepared surface which is visible on all La-5 props, unless painted over during maintenance - here's one of several images I've got that show this. This one is actually a screen capture from a La-5 training film, and shows a La-5 or La-5F:



Here's a La-5FN:



Here's another La-5FN:



John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2009, 08:18:05 AM »

Hi friends, Smiley
I see. It was common, not any proof.
Massimo
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FPSOlkor
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« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2014, 09:09:40 PM »

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/pilots/kardopoltsev/kardopoltsev.htm

? In your regiment there were ?Mongolskii Arat? planes? What was the marking? Were the noses red or yellow?

Mongolia decided to help us and tank division. They used to send us gifts: meat, vine, clothes and some other stuff? They used to send them in railroad carts. They also sent us ?Mongolskii Arat? squadron.
The planes when they came were ordinary, without any difference to other planes, with an exception of an insignia, it was in red or white letters. Later we painted the noses of the planes in red ? it was a tradition for all the planes in our regiment, and we also made a white ?cap? at the upper part of the keel. When 12 of these planes came to the regiment, they were given to every squadron ? 4 planes each, but in a very short time they were gathered in one ? second squadron.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2014, 06:15:04 PM »

Hi Oleg,
interesting, but it is hard to believe that the nose of plane 52 was red; in its lower part, it seems even lighter than the light blue under the engine cowling.
Regards
Massimo
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FPSOlkor
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2015, 04:20:08 PM »

A new set of photos - I would suggest overcopying them
http://vif2ne.ru/nvi/forum/0/co/164260.htm
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2015, 09:38:28 PM »

Hi Oleg,
excellent images, thank you very much. .
http://eap.bl.uk/EAPDigitalItems/EAP264/EAP264_1_11_1-EAP264TR109_L.jpg
This look a Mongolian Il-2, am I wrong?
And here are the La-5FN:
http://eap.bl.uk/EAPDigitalItems/EAP264/EAP264_1_6_9-EAP264ML_Box112_015_L.jpg
http://eap.bl.uk/EAPDigitalItems/EAP264/EAP264_1_6_9-EAP264ML_Box112_013_L.jpg
http://eap.bl.uk/EAPDigitalItems/EAP264/EAP264_1_6_5-EAP264ML_Box96_035_L.jpg
Really beautiful photos. But they give great doubys: the nose looks very light and gloss, nearly white. And the cowling looks unusually dark and uniform, but matt, not glossy.
I wonder if any shade of red and dark grey can give that effect.
Note the unusual landing lights.
Here one can find photos of Mongol Po-2 too.
http://eap.bl.uk/database/overview_item.a4d?catId=37601;r=23811
Regards
Massimo

« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 10:12:27 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2015, 09:03:48 AM »

Hi all,
I would know some historical notes on these planes:
what does Mongolskiy arat' mean: I've found two different translations, both 'Mongol warrior' and  'Mongol pride'.
Planes with this slogan were given to 2 GIAP only, or to other units too?
Mongols gave the planes only, or the pilots too?
Any historical notes would be interesting.
Regards
Massimo
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2015, 03:13:46 PM »

Hi all,
I would know some historical notes on these planes:
what does Mongolskiy arat' mean: I've found two different translations, both 'Mongol warrior' and  'Mongol pride'.
Planes with this slogan were given to 2 GIAP only, or to other units too?
Mongols gave the planes only, or the pilots too?
Any historical notes would be interesting.
Regards
Massimo

Massimo

note in shot 015

Note the apparent colour of the nose, very pale, but the very dark colour of the underside,
and compare to 013, where the underside is much paler, while the nose is now darker.


I don't know enough about this, but i suggest this is the effect of different coloured filters?
Or even just effect of different aperture speed?
   Someone with more knowledge of black and white photography may know more.   
Pics linked in under 'fair use' to aid discussion.

Also, in 015, note how dark the underside appears,
possibly the cause of the dark undersides of the Yak-7's here?


Just a suggestion.  That Il-2 does look to have Mongolian markings too, fascinating.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2015, 03:49:59 PM »

Hi Troy,
I've noted that shot 015 shows a nearly white nose.
I agree that it could be due to the use of some filter, maybe darkening blue. The photo of yaks could be due to the same effect, the grass is light in the same way, but only one of the images show a dark sky.
Anyway, the color is not the same of the stars; one could compare the color of the stars and of the inscriptions, visible under the same light. The frontal illumination contributes to show the nose as so light.
I'm just tracing a drawing. The photo gives the impression of Yellow, but it would be strange; i'll draw it as a sort of light shade of red, sort of orange or dayglo.  It could be that two different red paints impress a film in different way, To tell the truth, photos don't show the White tail cap described by the veteran.
I hope that something sure will emerge some days.
Regards
Massimo
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