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Author Topic: Nose colour of La-5FN 2GIAP  (Read 13343 times)
FPSOlkor
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« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 01:54:05 AM »

White cap was not a FRE for the regiment as such, but for each regiment at current time and location. Sometimes thay changed, particularly when regiment changed subordination. 2 GvIAP was known for being sent to different fronts recently. If photo was taken before regiment arrived to specific theater of war, or after described period, cap could be absent. Another note - bort numbers. I would suggest (although it is not for sure), that ARAt initial airplanes had through numbers, while here we can see 70 along with 180. That could be due to replacement of battle worn or destroyed airplanes.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 07:16:40 AM »

Hi Oleg,
I think that the unit had two planes numbered 80 in factory (perhaps the second one is on the photo) and added  1 to distinguish them transforming one 80 into 180. I've already seen La-5s with three numbers, and the first is usually 1, probably because it's the only one they can place into the available space.
Regards
Massimo
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FPSOlkor
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« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 05:02:32 PM »

Possible. But still? there could be some differences - squad consisted of 12 airplanes, quite commonly with through numbers (at least at the beginning of fights after getting new airplanes), and here we see 50. 70. 80. 180...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2017, 02:05:02 PM »

Hi,
in private mail, Johann has raised again the question of the noses of La-5FN of this unit.
I've asked Ruchkovsky if there are news about this topic, and he answered that the only information is that the unit repainted red the noses of their La-7 with the addition of Guards mark to prevent confusion with German fockewulf.
Interesting... hadn't other units problems in distinguish La-7s from FW190?

Returning to La-5FN photographed above, this gives space to photo interpretation.
In some photos, those noses appear as dark as the light blue undersurfaces.In other photo the noses appears darker, and in other ones appear lighter.
This could be the effect of colored filters on the camera or of different films.
On this photo the nose appears of the same grey of both the ground and of the undersurfaces



in this one both the grassy ground and the noses appear very light.



If this is the effect of a filter, it had the same effect on both the noses and the grass.
Being the dominant color of the grass green or yellow, this suggests that the noses could be in some color not too different from yellow.
The possibility of confusion with German planes suggests the same thing.
So, if it wasn't yellow as German Gelb 04, it had to be or a lemon yellow, or yellow-orange or lime green.
Any ideas on this?
Regards
Massimo

« Last Edit: January 09, 2017, 02:11:09 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Johann
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2017, 06:36:21 AM »

Yeshe is such a moment - the nose is likely not the red and here's why; In this photo



the word "Монгольский Арат" (Mongolian Arat)
the same can not be red (in comparison with the star color is much lighter) But the color of the caption and the hood is very similar.
Personally, I tend to orange.



What do you think?
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 06:37:56 AM by Johann » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2017, 07:45:18 AM »

Hi Johann,
my opinion is that the nose and the inscription were yellow at the date of the photo, as shown on many profiles, and later were repainted (the nose only, probably) with red to avoid friendly fire. Kardopoltsev says that red noses were a tradition; so it is difficult that a different compromise color, as orange, would have used for long.
A delivery with yellow noses would justify a quick red repainting.
Regards
Massimo
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Johann
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2017, 08:20:20 AM »

Obviously yes, here they have a clearly red noses. But the inscription as I understand it is not changed and remains orange

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2017, 11:12:44 AM »

Hi,
here the noses could be red, or it could be just a joke of the filters on the camera. I think that they didn't repaint the slogan, because it didn't cause risk of friendly fire.
Regards
Massimo
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Johann
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2017, 10:30:35 PM »

Massimo greetings. I was also sent a photo of La-5FN Mayorav, On it the color of the fairing of the screw differs from the hood

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 06:21:37 AM »

Hi Johann,
I see. Perhaps the spinner has two colors too, or two shades of the same color.
Regards
Massimo
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Johann
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2017, 10:05:19 AM »

Found two indirect confirmations that the inscription and the hoods were painted red

Quote
2-му гвардейскому полку была поставлена задача на прикрытие боевых порядков танкистов. Командование и штаб полка дали указания на перебазирование. Инженерно-технический состав во главе с инженером полка майором А. А. Лелекиным много потрудился над тем, чтобы все самолеты были в боевой готовности. В оставшееся время на самолетах были нарисованы гвардейские знаки, капоты моторов покрасили в красный цвет, чтобы в воздушном бою было легче отличать свои лавочкины от фоккеров (по внешнему виду эти самолеты были очень похожи). На фюзеляжах 12 самолетов красной краской подновили слова Монгольский арат.

and

Quote
Полк базировался на полевой аэродром Вязовая на земле Смоленщины. С раннего утра 25 сентября 1943 г. командный, летный и технический состав занялся подготовкой к торжественному событию. На поле появились импровизированная трибуна, гвардейское Знамя полка, флаги, лозунг в честь дружбы советского и монгольского народов. На воинах - чистая выглаженная форма с орденами и медалями.
 
И вот настал долгожданный час. Из-за леса один за другим вынырнули 12 новеньких боевых самолетов Ла-5 с ярко-красной надписью Монгольский арат на фюзеляжах. Сделав парадный круг над аэродромом, машины заруливают на специально выделенную площадку. Возгласы. Ура, Монгольский арат!, Ура, монгольский народ! заглушают рокот моторов.

The first is from the book "Mongolian Arat" Second of the newspaper article for 43 years
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2017, 10:19:26 AM »

Hi Johann,
interesting. Thank you for having posted it.
Quote
The 2nd Guards Regiment was tasked with covering the tank order. The command and staff of the regiment gave instructions for relocation. The engineering and technical staff, led by the engineer of the regiment, Major A. A. Lelekin, worked hard to ensure that all the aircraft were in combat readiness. In the remaining time, the Guards badges were painted on the planes, the engine hoods were painted red, so that in air combat it was easier to distinguish their "lavochkins" from the "Fokker" (in appearance these planes were very similar). On the fuselages, 12 planes with red paint refreshed the words "Mongolian Arat".
one has to clarify when this happened. If it was in late 1944/early 1945, the planes were La-7s.
Anyway it doesn't say about the original color of the inscription.

Quote
The regiment was based on the field airfield Vyazovaya on the land of Smolensk. From early morning on September 25, 1943, the command, flight and technical staff engaged in preparations for the solemn event. An improvised tribune, Guards Banner of Flags, flags, a slogan in honor of the friendship of the Soviet and Mongolian peoples appeared on the field. On the soldiers - a clean ironed form with orders and medals.
 
And now the long-awaited hour has come. From behind the forest, 12 new La-5 military aircraft emerged one after another with a bright red inscription "Mongolian Arat" on the fuselages. Having made a ceremonial balloon over the airfield, the cars are tilted to a specially designated area. Exclamations. "Hooray," Mongolian arat! "," Hooray, Mongolian people! "Muffle the roar of engines.

Here it speaks of bright red and of 1943. Bright red... something as dayglo red? Different from the red of the stars? Interestingly, it doesn't describe the noses of the planes.

Regards
Massimo

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Johann
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2017, 10:28:47 AM »

I am confused by another moment - "September 25, 1943" and "the first 12 aircraft"
It's probably the first La-5F where the inscription was really red.

And a description from the book - end of December 1944. Most likely this is already La7

Quote
В конце декабря 1944 г. 2-й гвардейский полк был готов к выполнению боевых задач. Наступал 1945 год. Все сознавали, что вот-вот должны начаться активные боевые действия.Личный состав 2-го гвардейского полка Новый год встретил за товарищеским ужином в летной столовой. Первый новогодний тост был провозглашен за окончательный разгром немецкого фашизма в 1945 г., за то, чтобы дойти до Берлина и отпраздновать там победу.
С первого дня нового года в гвардейском, полку вновь закипела подготовительная работа к боевым действиям. Через день командиры авиационных соединений были вызваны в штаб воздушной армии, где генерал-полковник авиации С. А. Красовский поставил перед каждым боевую задачу.
2-му истребительному авиационному корпусу предстояло во взаимодействии с другими корпусами прикрывать с воздуха главную группировку войск 1-го Украинского фронта, наносящую удар с сандомирского плацдарма. 322-я дивизия должна была заранее перебазироваться на передовые аэродромы и с началом операции действовать во взаимодействии с 3-й ударной армией генерала В. Г. Гордова и 3-й и 4-й гвардейскими танковыми армиями, которыми командовали генералы П. С. Рыбалко и Д. Д. Лелюшенко.

Quote
At the end of December 1944, the 2nd Guards Regiment was ready to carry out combat missions. It was 1945. Everyone was aware that active hostilities were just about to begin. The staff of the 2nd Guards Regiment met New Year for a comradely dinner in the flight canteen. The first New Year's toast was proclaimed for the final defeat of German fascism in 1945, for getting to Berlin and celebrating victory there.
From the first day of the new year in the Guards regiment, the preparatory work for the fighting again began to boil. A day later, the commanders of aviation formations were summoned to the headquarters of the air army, where Colonel-General of the Aviation SA Krasovsky set the task for each.
The 2 nd Fighter Aviation Corps was to cover the main group of troops of the 1st Ukrainian Front, which strikes from the Sandomir bridgehead, in cooperation with other corps. The 322nd division was to advance to the advanced airfields in advance and with the beginning of the operation to act in cooperation with the 3rd Shock Army of General VG Gordov and the 3rd and 4th Guards Tank Armies, commanded by the generals PS Rybalko And D. D. Lelyushenko.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 11:09:30 AM by Johann » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #28 on: March 10, 2017, 04:18:10 PM »

Hi,
Quote
I am confused by another moment - "September 25, 1943" and "the first 12 aircraft"
It's probably the first La-5F where the inscription was really red.
F or FN? Are the same planes of the photos?
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Johann
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« Reply #29 on: March 10, 2017, 07:02:19 PM »

No, it is F. If we are talking about the first aircraft arrived in the IAP


La-5F from the squadron "Mongolian Arat". Aircraft for this squadron were built in August 1943 for donations of Mongolian stock-breeders (arats). The squadron was part of the 2nd Guards IAP of the 322nd Air Division.

Were built in August 1943, and according to a note in the newspaper it is about September 1943 and the mention of the first 12 machines. So tex in the newspaper describes exactly La-5F
And the photo corresponds to the description - the text of the inscription is red.

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