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Author Topic: La-7 profiles  (Read 8464 times)
warhawk
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« on: March 27, 2010, 03:29:37 PM »

Found some profiles on this page
http://alternathistory.org.ua/istrebitel-la-7-aviakollektsiya-11-za-2009-skachat

since the first one (white 33) was a three-cannon machine (and isn't depicted as one), are some other machines on these profiles the three-cannon version?
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John Thompson
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« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2010, 02:08:11 AM »

Interesting profiles - thanks for posting that! I checked several references, and could not find any others that are 3-gun types, so maybe that's the only one that is shown incorrectly (although there were several that I could not find anywhere else, so...)

You've probably seen this already:
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/La7-3gun/index.php

I also checked the MBI La-7 monograph, and the CD "Radial Engined Lavochkins of WW2" by Erik Pilawskii, but did not find anything to prove that other aircraft on the page you posted had the three Berezin cannons.

I didn't find anything here:
http://www.wunderwaffe.narod.ru/Magazine/AirWar/96/Pictures/page_01.htm

...or even among the profiles on Wings Palette, either, although these can be all over the place for accuracy, considering that they come from dozens of different sources:
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/335/1

That "White 14" in the overall red paint scheme is interesting - the colour profiles on the third page of the wunderwaffe.narod.ru link above show a "White 14" with the same pilot's name and unit, dated 1944 instead of 1945, finished in what is apparently AMT-11 overall. I wonder if the red paint-job is documented - if it's "real", possibly it was applied as part of a celebration of the end of the war?

John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2010, 08:30:58 AM »

Quote
That "White 14" in the overall red paint scheme is interesting - the colour profiles on the third page of the wunderwaffe.narod.ru link above show a "White 14" with the same pilot's name and unit, dated 1944 instead of 1945, finished in what is apparently AMT-11 overall. I wonder if the red paint-job is documented - if it's "real", possibly it was applied as part of a celebration of the end of the war?

John

Hi John,
I think to remember some textual report about a La-7 repainted in red; however, I would expect an overall red finish under the plane too. It would be interesting to find photos, if any, and try to compare the color to that of the red stars.
Massimo
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warhawk
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« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2010, 11:08:52 PM »

Makes you wonder what they used for reference...
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 12:17:02 AM »

Found some profiles on this page
http://alternathistory.org.ua/istrebitel-la-7-aviakollektsiya-11-za-2009-skachat

since the first one (white 33) was a three-cannon machine (and isn't depicted as one), are some other machines on these profiles the three-cannon version?

the profiles shown are from the Russian book on the la-7 that is illustrated above.   I just found a pdf of this. 
here http://modelfan.ru/3100-aviakollekciya-11-2009-istrebitel-la-7.html

it's a Model-Konstuktor book, all in Cyrillic, no photo of '33' the 3-gun nose La 7. 
Most interesting are of both sides of a belly landed La-7 bort 32, with a small fuselage star.

the MBI book is of more use.

on page 33 of the MBI book there is a photo of bort 33 (white with a black outline) credited too Lt. Col V.F Golubyev, 4th GFAR.  There is a pic of this but only the rear fuselage which does show this detail. These markings are included in 1/48th Gavia La-7 3 gun nose kit.

HTH
T


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mholly
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« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2010, 01:37:11 PM »

Hi John,
Quote
...finished in what is apparently AMT-11 overall
I have yet to see some viable proof that this scheme ever existed.
Cheers,
Mario
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2010, 08:27:56 PM »


Hi Mario,
this is a plane of early 1946, and could be painted with AMT-11.

Regards
Massimo
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mholly
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« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2010, 02:33:43 AM »


Hi Mario,
this is a plane of early 1946, and could be painted with AMT-11.

Regards
Massimo
Yes, it could be. What I meant was this application during the war.
Orlov did write that right after war gray-gray scheme was changed just to AMT-11 on the top and in late 1947/early 1948 to AGT-16.
So I suspect that some b&w pix are dated wrong and show some planes after post-war repainting. This would explain appearance of some planes such as Dolgushin's La-7. Remind you that standard painting procedure for gray-gray scheme was to spray AMT-12 (darker) first and then the areas in AMT-11 according to desired pattern which, contrary to popular belief, was vastly (fully) adhered to by manufacturers.
Certain gentleman however still wants us to believe that they just omitted painting darker areas to achieve "winter 44/45, late war, whatever" scheme!
Cheers,
Mario
Mario
« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 03:59:07 AM by mholly » Logged
Troy Smith
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« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2010, 05:03:05 AM »




Yes, it could be. What I meant was this application during the war.
Orlov did write that right after war gray-gray scheme was changed just to AMT-11 on the top and in late 1947/early 1948 to AGT-16.
So I suspect that some b&w pix are dated wrong and show some planes after post-war repainting. This would explain appearance of some planes such as Dolgushin's La-7. Remind you that standard painting procedure for gray-gray scheme was to spray AMT-12 (darker) first and then the areas in AMT-11 according to desired pattern which, contrary to popular belief, was vastly (fully) adhered to by manufacturers.
Certain gentleman however still wants us to believe that they just omitted painting darker areas to achieve "winter 44/45, late war, whatever" scheme!
Cheers,
Mario


Hi Mario

is this what you mean, or am I misunderstanding what is being asked about?

This  looks like single upper colour on these La-7's, with I presume red nose and rudder tabs?  A (looks same colour as stars) A little blurred but the La-7 badges and cowl bands are visible.
Dated April 1945.
(P32 MBI La-7 book.  posted as 'fair use')

Thoughts on upper colour?



hope of interest
T
« Last Edit: October 17, 2010, 12:01:16 AM by Troy Smith » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2010, 10:36:42 PM »

Hi Mario, hi Troy,
please have a look to the photo of planes Yak-9DD at pag-40 of Red Stars of Geust, Keskinen, Stenman.
The first and third plane look to have overall AMT-11 painting, while the second plane only is camouflaged.
I think to remember that somewhere exists a photocolor of these planes made in Italy by some US pilot.
Another particular of interest: the undersurfaces of metallic parts (nose, doors) appear much much lighter than the color of rear surface, where it is even doubtful that the undersurfaces were made with another color of uppersurfaces.  Could it be a case of the already discussed Yaks with grey undersurfaces?
About the color of the La-7s of the photo, I would say that it's AMT-12, not 11.
Regards
Massimo
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2010, 06:33:44 AM »

hi Massimo

which Red Stars? I have 1, 2, 3, 4, but is there a combined volumes of 1-3?

would the bort numbers be red outlined ? 

cheers
Troy
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2010, 11:06:13 AM »

Hi Troy,
I mean Red Stars n.1, the plane with the star on the spinner.
To tell the truth, I don't think that numbers of Yaks are red outlined, even if I can't exclude.
regards
Massimo
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2010, 05:40:15 PM »

Hi Massimo

What i meant would the bort numbers on these La-7 be outlined in red, which seems standard, I think one of these would make an interesting model.

thanks
T
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2010, 10:32:33 PM »

Hi Troy,
here are the images of the plane I meant.
[IMG=http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/2583/o1131610026noshgac.th.jpg][/IMG]
About La-7: it's likely that t it had the usual  outline.
Regards
Massimo
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Greg C.
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« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2010, 09:09:36 PM »


Hi Mario

is this what you mean, or am I misunderstanding what is being asked about?

This  looks like single upper colour on these La-7's, with I presume red nose and rudder tabs?  A (looks same colour as stars) A little blurred but the La-7 badges and cowl bands are visible.
Dated April 1945.
(P32 MBI La-7 book.  posted as 'fair use')

Thoughts on upper colour?



hope of interest
T


I've been intrigued by this particular shot for years.  It suppo9sedly is a frame from video shot of this group of La-7s, and different views of it can be found in several different reference books.  I'm inclined to agree, it looks like overall AMT-12, with red nose and tail tabs.  I'm planning to do an La-7 in 1/48th in this scheme.
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