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Author Topic: Tu-2 "Moskva" camouflage  (Read 10858 times)
warhawk
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« on: July 20, 2010, 06:53:47 PM »

What is the correct cammo of this famous bomber?

1) Solid green upper surfaces, as stated on ICM box


2) Brown/Green (AMT4/AMT1?), as stated in AirWar book vol 67


3) Three color (AMT1/4/12) standard NKAP scheme, as depicted on this excellent profile by B. Zolotov


4) Or maybe even a Grey-grey scheme of AMT 11/12 as depicted in Aviakolekcija book?


I know it is difficult to find a definitive answer, I am hoping for at least an educated discussion on available photos (if there are any)

Regards,
Aleksandar
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 11:31:22 AM by warhawk » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 10:12:21 PM »

The recent Aviakollectia monograph shows profiles with:
solid green
black-green camo
green-brown-grey camo
grey-grey camo
solid white green-brown (korean).
Plane n.32 Moskva is reported with grey-grey scheme on the profile, but this profile is wrong if compared to the photo of pag.59.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
The photo, although in perfect condition of light, is strange: shows all the front part of the plane (including all what is visible of the central and front fuselage, frames, wings and nacelles) in very light color (nearly as light as the undersurface), and the rear (rearward of the rear gunner position) camouflaged with two dark shades. The second plane of the line, n.31, is the same.
What is visible of the camo scheme on the rear fuselage and tail resembles a black-green plane of 1943.
The demarcation line between light and dark part seems to show brush strokes.
I wonder if they are remains of a winter scheme, but there is not snow on the ground, perhaps white darkened to non standard light grey, a compromise winter camo.
An alternative to white could be AMT-1 or any other light color.

Another plane of the same unit (6 BAP), plane n.8, appears traditionally camouflaged, perhaps green and black, unfortunately it's impossible to see if it has the slogan painted on it.



Massimo
« Last Edit: July 21, 2010, 08:39:37 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
KL
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2010, 08:52:52 AM »

Tu-2 "Moskva" was discussed at scalemodels.ru forum:

http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_6527_start_140.html

Airplane No 32 ended up as an instructional airframe in Harkov VATU and survived into 1950-ies.  Some nice photos were posted earlier at scalemodels.ru, but most links are broken now... Undecided





This Tu-2 was camouflaged in 3-colour scheme but pattern wasn't standard.

KL
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warhawk
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2010, 10:48:27 AM »

Hi, thanks for the images.

Were at least the colors standard? I mean these colors (A-24m / A32m / A-21m):


Regards,
Aleksandar
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 10:51:33 AM by warhawk » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2010, 05:04:56 PM »

Hi Konstantin, hi Aleksandar,
I've read that thread but there are still things that are not clear to me. They say that Moskva was written on the left side only, showing the plane in latest years; but it could have been repainted. Other planes (as 26 shown in this photo) have the slogan on the right too.
I suppose that the sand was subject to some hand-brush repainting , or the plane could have had a early green-black camo, modified into a 3-shade camo by roughly adding sand bands.

I've tried to make a sketch with the standard scheme adapted to fit the photo, modifying a sketch found on the Russian forum. It's clear that I can't guarantee its accuracy.


Massimo
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 05:46:46 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
warhawk
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2010, 06:34:38 PM »

Thank you all very much for consideration

Regards
Aleksandar
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learstang
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2010, 06:41:27 PM »

Hi Konstantin, hi Aleksandar,
I've read that thread but there are still things that are not clear to me. They say that Moskva was written on the left side only, showing the plane in latest years; but it could have been repainted. Other planes (as 26 shown in this photo) have the slogan on the right too.
I suppose that the sand was subject to some hand-brush repainting , or the plane could have had a early green-black camo, modified into a 3-shade camo by roughly adding sand bands.

I've tried to make a sketch with the standard scheme adapted to fit the photo, modifying a sketch found on the Russian forum. It's clear that I can't guarantee its accuracy.


Massimo

Massimo, I know this is a bit off-topic (sorry, but any topic seems to lead me to the IL-2), but do you think this could have been done to the (in)famous "White 24" straight-winged two-seater IL-2?  I've always been puzzled by this particular aircraft - is it an extensively repaired and repainted Shturmovik, or a misinterpreted 3-colour scheme (some sources say the pictures are from 1942, some say 1943).  I'd be interested in your opinion on this vexing aeroplane.  If this has been discussed in a previous thread, accept my apologies.  Thank you for any help!

Regards,

Jason

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/Aeroplane%20Photographs/IL-2-White24i.jpg
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/Aeroplane%20Photographs/IL-2-White24-StarboardPhoto.jpg
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/Learstang/Aeroplane%20Photographs/IL-2-White24-PortPhoto.jpg
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2010, 10:54:25 PM »

Hi Aleksandar, you're welcome.
Hi Jason,
if I remember well, Viktor, on his publication on Il-2, suggests that this plane wore black, green and sand.
Some light color appears in some non-standard painted planes in 1941/42, and the most likely candidate is AMT-1, that was in production in 1941 but described in standard schemes only in 1943.
Massimo
« Last Edit: July 23, 2010, 10:58:52 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2010, 01:26:38 AM »

Hi Aleksandar, you're welcome.
Hi Jason,
if I remember well, Viktor, on his publication on Il-2, suggests that this plane wore black, green and sand.
Some light color appears in some non-standard painted planes in 1941/42, and the most likely candidate is AMT-1, that was in production in 1941 but described in standard schemes only in 1943.
Massimo

Thank you, Massimo.  That does appear to be the case.  Still, a very unusually painted aeroplane.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2010, 06:52:39 AM »

Few photos more:
















Happy modeling,
KL
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warhawk
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2010, 12:46:30 PM »

Hi, do those photos depict a particular plane in 6th BAP? No number is visible. However, the red band is interesting, although I do not know which aircraft it was used on. The ilustration I found gives no clear explanation...

Regards,
Aleksandar
« Last Edit: October 07, 2015, 11:57:43 AM by warhawk » Logged
learstang
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« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2010, 06:07:32 PM »

Interesting pictures, Konstantin.  I didn't realise the Tu-2 was that big.  It looks quite a bit bigger than the Peshka.  I've always thought the Tu-2 looked great in the three-colour scheme.  I may just have to get my kit out and start working on it.  It'd be a break from my Ilyushas.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2010, 09:43:38 PM »

Hi, do those photos depict a particular plane in 6th BAP? No number is visible

All those photos are from scalemodels.ru forum.  Forum member who posted them is saying that they show plane with the tactical number 32.

Interesting pictures, Konstantin.  I didn't realise the Tu-2 was that big.  It looks quite a bit bigger than the Peshka.

Pe-2 was a high altitude fighter modified to a dive bomber.  Its dimensions were comparable with Me-110.
Tu-2 was designed as a medium bomber (with diving capabilities).  Its comparable with Ju-88.

 Cool Smiley Cool
KL
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warhawk
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2014, 11:27:47 AM »

Sorry to post in an old topic, but it concerns the same aircraft.
I have noticed Tu-2s of these unit had some inscription beneath the "Moskva" name on the starboard side.
I am going to try to make masks for this, but cannot find any close-up images of the entire inscription.
Does anyone know exactly what the text says, or maybe a font that I can use to depict it?
I am aware it was hand-written, but surely there is a similar one that can be adapted in Photoshop...

Some nice photos were posted earlier at scalemodels.ru, but most links are broken now... Undecided




The ilustration I found gives no clear explanation...

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KL
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2014, 06:20:17 PM »





16.10.44 г. делегация Киевского района Москвы передала полку 32 новых самолета Ту-2 с надписью "Москва".

The inscription should be:
Москва
От трудящихся Киевского
района.


HTH,
KL
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