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Author Topic: two seat hurricane conversions in VVS  (Read 4551 times)
Troy Smith
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« on: October 01, 2010, 10:45:32 PM »

Hi

this came up in the thread about the Hurricane IIC use in the VVS,
Learstang asked about  the 2 seat conversions.

the specific one asked about is this image.



profiles of the plane show it both temperate land scheme (dark green/dark earth/sky) or the day fighter scheme (dark green/ocean grey/medium sea grey)
The plane is Canadian built Mk XI (eg a MK II, see below)

Steven 'modeldad' Eisenmann thought DG/DE/Sky, the relevant part is this

"The lighter color crosses the cockpit area, it should be the darker green in a DG/OG scheme. More likely that is the Green crossing the cockpit. Also the aircraft is Canadian produced, and I don't believe the Canadian produced Hurricanes were in DG/OG."

my response

"OK, if not Dk Green Ocean Grey.. what is it...
And in Canada would have retained this finish.

But, BW984 has a sky band and presumably spinner, which are RAF european theatre markings.

in the Mk XI batch, aircraft BW 941, BW 944, BW949 are listed as coverted to 12 gun wing at No 13 MU, Henlow.

Who would have repainted the planes in DG/OG/MSG and put on sky band/spinner. Sort of thing the RAF were hot on.
More of the batch listed at 22MU for dispatch to Russia.
So Plane then shipped to Russia from UK.

(full batch of MkXI was 150 aircraft, built 1941-42, serials BW 885-BX134, from the 60's Francis K Mason book)

Reversal of the main uppersurface colours is rare, but were official schemes, and known as "C" and "D" schemes I read.
(Graham Boak made a posting about this on the board I think in the last month) and more likely to happen in a repaint.

Further Dark Green comes up darker than both Dark Earth AND Ocean Gray in photo's, and if the top is DG/DE, then what colour is the underside?
From pics of Canadian built planes in Canada they seem to have sky.

While looking for pics, I was looking at Ducimus RAF camo and markings, and in the Mustang section there are various Mustang I with DE repainted with mixed grey (7 parts MSG to 1 part Night) pending supplies of Ocean Grey, and in one pic there is a DG/OG Mustang and a Dg/Mixed Grey one, which looks more like dark earth in tone compared to OG.
I know it's not the same thing, but quite a few of the Mustang Is are in "reversed" schemes.

Finally, IF BW485 is DG/DE uppers, and that is a sky band, going under the fuselage, what colour is the underside? I'm sure a Russian repaint would have gone over the sky band?"


For armament fitted.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/thread/1241258898/Soviet+2+seat+hurricane+rear+gunner

The gun is probably an aircraft version of Degtyaryov machine gun,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degtyaryov_machine_gun

"DA, for mounting in aircraft ( ,Degtyaryova Aviatsionny; )"

http://www.primeportal.net/armory/yuri_pasholok/da_aircraft_mg/



the other know VVS conversions are



I first ran across a profile drawing of this in The Hawker Hurricane, classic aircraft and how model them No. 4 (PSL 1974,  IIRC) but it was nearly 30 years later i got to see the photo below.   
the caption said it was attached to a free french unit with the VVS.  Somewhere I presume there is a less grainy version of this pic?


this other plane has been discussed here and on the VVS site, i'll add links when I get chance.



more later
T

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learstang
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« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 12:44:50 AM »

Wow!  That's quite a bit of information about the two-seaters.  Thank you, Troy!  One of these days I will do the artillery spotter/courier aircraft, whatever paint scheme I end up doing it in.

Regards,

Learstang
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marluc
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« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 06:46:52 AM »

Hello Troy:

Thanks for sharing this information.

the caption said it was attached to a free french unit with the VVS. Somewhere I presume there is a less grainy version of this pic?
I?ve found this picture many years ago in a soft cover french book about the Hawker Hurricane and it was very small,anyway the original one was of bad quality.As far as I remember the caption said something related to Normandie-Niemen squadron.
Greetings.

Martin
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