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Author Topic: Hawker Hurricane in VVS  (Read 19886 times)
Troy Smith
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« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2010, 04:43:35 AM »

"Also, at least some Spitfires, (and presumably) Hurricanes were supplied with British applied red stars with black outlines, there are pictures in Red Stars 4 of the RAF roundels being sprayed out and the red stars applied.  "
Line up of Spitfires, Abadan Iran, 1943, if you look carefully you can just about see the painted out RAF roundel further forward.
Also note the upperwing stars.  Later Spitfire deliveries have white outline starts with stencil breaks.  No reason that this is not also the case for many Hurricane shipments.   


Pictures of Spitfire VBs in VVS service in similar serial ranges do not show repainting of stars, like EP210 "white 538", EP356 "white 20".
pics of VB's used in catapult trails show added outlines. (also in Red Stars 4)

T
 

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learstang
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« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 05:24:25 AM »

Those are some interesting Hurricanes!  I may just have to get me that decal sheet and do a Hurricane (or two).  I especially like red/white 60, with the wolves - very interesting paint scheme.  Can anyone tell if it has the Soviet armament (ShVAK's and UBS's)?  I got the Authentic Decals sheet for the two-seater Il-2's and it was very nicely done, but the decals were thin and had a tendency to break up.  If you do get their decals I recommend going over them with some suitable clearcoat.

In case I do get these decals, any suggestions for 1/72nd scale Hurricane kits?

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: October 12, 2010, 05:35:23 AM by learstang » Logged

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Graham Boak
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« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 11:31:27 AM »

It is between Hasegawa and Revell.  Hasegawa is the nicest and most accurate but it may be more difficult to track down the relevant variants, which do disappear rapidly.  They did offer a Russian Mk.IIb, but the basic "Mk.Ib"(sic) boxing actually makes a good Mk.IIb but for the prop and tailwheel.  The kit suffers from over-emphasised fabric "sink", and Gunze Mr. Surfacer has been recommended to fix this.  No doubt different modellers will suggest a variety of methods.  Revell is less accurate in a number of ways, slightly narrow wing, crude fuselage fabric effect, canopy, prop/spinner, bomb fairings.....but is cheaper and simpler.  It also comes in a range of variants, including Mk.IIb, Mk.IIc and with tropical filter.

Replacement canopies are available from Falcon/Squadron, resin spinner/props from Quickboost.

Avoid any of the older Airfix, the new Mk.IIc has a narrow nose (very common on Hurricane kits) but is otherwise quite nice.  The Heller/SMER Mk.IIc/IV is well dated, the Academy mis-shapen.  If you could find an old Revell, Frog/Remus/Novo/Eastern Express, Matchbox or Aosima, don't.

AZ are about to produce a range of Mk.IVs.
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 01:18:17 PM »


Hi Jason

Those are some interesting Hurricanes!  I may just have to get me that decal sheet and do a Hurricane (or two).  I especially like red/white 60, with the wolves - very interesting paint scheme.  Can anyone tell if it has the Soviet armament (ShVAK's and UBS's)?

BM959 - White 60 is pretty famous as it was captured by the Finns.  AFAIK it still had RAF Brownings, there has never been any mention that it was regunned.  Worth asking the Finnish AF museum though.
The other schemes are brand new to me, and fascinating as well,  which is why i posted them.


Quote
 I got the Authentic Decals sheet for the two-seater Il-2's and it was very nicely done, but the decals were thin and had a tendency to break up.  If you do get their decals I recommend going over them with some suitable clearcoat.

Useful to know, thanks.
T
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learstang
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« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 05:45:24 PM »

Thank you gentlemen for the information!  Looks like I'm going to have to take some time off from my Shturmoviks and do me up a Hurricane.  It would actually be a nice break.

Regards,

Jason
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2010, 02:29:11 AM »

regarding this discussion of this pic



Hello Troy:



...except that the blades on Rotol propellers are made of a compressed wood composite called 'Jablo'   

The blades maybe painted white or aluminum, or it may be a light effect...
Yes,you?re right,I forget that the blades were made of wood.So,I?m starting to think that it?s a light effect,the blades could be reflecting sunlight.
Greetings.

Martin

Hmm, well, black blades don don't reflect much, and why is there not trace of the yellow tips?   I don't know, but even the part of the blade in shadow looks pale.  Looking at planes with the propeller going round even in sunlight they tend to look dark, and the yellow tips show up.   

The tail marking is interesting! 

cheers
T


I was looking through the lend-lease.ru site, and in the part
Spitfires over the Kuban
http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/spit/index.htm

Quote
According to summaries, the greatest deficit was in wooden propellers. Over the course of May, the regiment did not receive a single spare propeller, despite the fact that they failed the most often. ?Wooden propeller blades fail at airfields that have gravel [surfaces]... A large number of dents prevent proper use of the propellers?, it says in the summary.

Perhaps more VVS ingenuity, and the blades are Soviet replacements?  Another possibility is it has a Canadian Hamilton propeller, as these had metal blades,  with a rotol spinner.
Graham Boak, do you have any thoughts on this?

cheers
T
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2010, 09:28:35 AM »

Hi,
this photo has something strange. Considering the direction of the sun, the upper part of the nose should be under the same light of the wings, but on the photo it appears completely dark.
Massimo
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Graham Boak
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« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2010, 12:45:40 PM »

The sun is very low and forward of the aircraft, I don't find the lighting too odd.

I have seen examples of other aircraft with painted propellors - not too many! - but fail to see why they would want it to be so bright.  Given the low position of the sun, I think it is probably glare.

Where would the Russians get the Hamilton propellors from?  Then there is the engineering effort in making them compatible....no, I don't see that as likely.  If they did, then why not just do as the Canadians and fly without spinners?
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2010, 06:18:56 PM »

The sun is very low and forward of the aircraft, I don't find the lighting too odd.

I have seen examples of other aircraft with painted propellors - not too many! - but fail to see why they would want it to be so bright.  Given the low position of the sun, I think it is probably glare.

Where would the Russians get the Hamilton propellors from?  Then there is the engineering effort in making them compatible....no, I don't see that as likely.  If they did, then why not just do as the Canadians and fly without spinners?
Hi Graham

I suggested the Hamilton prop as that's what at least some of the Canadian planes were built with. Quite a few Canadian built Hurricanes were supplied to the VVS, some via the eastern route as well I believe. (would these still have the Hamilton props?) 
I don't know why Canadian built planes flew without spinners though, but I have seen Hamilton props fitted with spinners as well.(different to the Hurricane rotol type which is the type fitted in this picture)

Or some kind of Russian prop blade? Due to a shortage of replacement Rotol blades, as mentioned in the quote about Spitfires, also fitted with Jablo blades.

Quote
According to summaries, the greatest deficit was in wooden propellers. Over the course of May, the regiment did not receive a single spare propeller, despite the fact that they failed the most often. ?Wooden propeller blades fail at airfields that have gravel [surfaces]... A large number of dents prevent proper use of the propellers?, it says in the summary.

The VVS went to the bother of fitting Klimov engines to the P-40,  so fitting Russian blades to get an operational plane is not impossible if spares are not available.   
I don't know, just that the blades appear very bright for black painted, even in sun.
If the blades are replacements in unpainted metal they would be bright.

I just postulating some ideas from other documented sources and practices.

cheers
T

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Graham Boak
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« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2010, 06:44:26 PM »

The Hamilton props are seen on Canadian-built Mk.Is, but not on Mk.IIs.  To my knowledge, all Mk.IIs were built with Rotol props.

The initial DH prop is a Hamilton built under licence. The early Merlins were different depending upon what propellor was used, but by 1940 they were built with compatible splines so that either DH or Rotol could be used.  The Merlin XX in the Mk.II was used on other aircraft with DH props.  However, the spinner would go with the props.  I know of no example where one manufacturer's blades were fitted to another manufacturer's hub and spinner - for one reason the limited setting angles would be different, for another tha actual root fitting would not be compatible.

If the Russians were seriously concerned about the supply of Rotol propellors, then they would have fitted a suitable propellor of their own to the Hurricane, but if such a thing existed then it would have had its own spinner (as did the P-40/Klimov examples).  However, propellors do need to be matched to the engine and the aircraft, it is not a simple matter of a substitution of mechanical parts.
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2018, 02:59:30 PM »




while posting elsewhere, it reminded me the image of the Hurricane with pale prop blades,  there is also this example



there is another shot of the same plane as well, I'll post when I can find it.

which has very pale blades...
also of note is the retention of the outer 0.303 guns along with the VVS installed weapons
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