Sovietwarplanes
May 24, 2019, 09:08:05 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This forum replaces the old sovietwarplanes.com whose domain has expired in January 2017. It has been updated with the posts of the year 2016.
The new location of the site 'Sovietwarplanes pages' is at http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
  Print  
Author Topic: Interior colours for Yak's, Lavochkin, Pe-2, Il-2, Mig 3, I-16 ?  (Read 48453 times)
Troy Smith
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 378


« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2010, 09:49:01 PM »

Konstantin, THANKS!

very informative and interesting.   Look forward to the  captions!
T
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2010, 01:19:29 AM »

Thank you for the translation, Konstantin!  It's nice to have someone on this site who knows both English and Russian.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5694


« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2010, 08:28:16 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the translation. I'm waiting with interest for your comments and captions.
The surprising thing is that dark grey never appears on these pieces. I wonder if it has disappeared with weathering, or never was on these types.
Is it possible to know about the year of the loss of the DB-3F with sandish brown chips? I suppose, after the mid of 1943.
Regards
Massimo
Logged
marluc
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2010, 09:30:01 PM »

Thanks Konstantin for the translation,it?s great information.Greetings.

Martin
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2010, 10:43:27 PM »

The surprising thing is that dark grey never appears on these pieces. I wonder if it has disappeared with weathering, or never was on these types.
Is it possible to know about the year of the loss of the DB-3F with sandish brown chips? I suppose, after the mid of 1943.

Hi Massimo,   Smiley
Gray A-14 does appear on DB-3 fragments!  
To help you and others to understand what was A-14, following are examples of better preserved ?steel gray? A-14 paint:



SB wreck found ?somewhere in Russia?.  A-14 applied directly on duraluminum




Same SB wreck.  A-14 applied over ALG-1 primer




Another SB wreck preserved in ?one of the museums in Russia?.




Third SB wreck found ?somewhere in Russia? (I believe in 1998).  Perfectly preserved interior A-14 applied over yellow ALG-1 primer.  Flash makes all colours lighter then they normaly were.


My interpretation of paints that could be seen on Kiev DB-3 fragments:



Interior is definitely painted with A-14.  The paint is somewhat degraded (?chalking? and bleaching). Also visible is underplaying yellow ALG-1 primer.




Exterior was also first primed with yellow ALG-1 primer and then painted with light gray AE-9 enamel.  This would be the standard factory finish for DB-3 bombers made in 1939 and first half of 1940.  The wreck could be an old DB-3, not Il-4.

Cheers,
KL  
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 01:42:08 AM by KL » Logged
John Thompson
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1484



« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2010, 11:29:25 PM »

Thanks very much for all this new information, Konstantin! The real colour of A-14 certainly looks lighter than the Akan acrylic version, although the enamel chip you've shown for comparison is a very good match. I can also see why there was some argument on rec.models.scale, years ago, about VVS aircraft cockpits being finished in RLM 02 - the shade does look similar to me. Thanks again!

John
Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2010, 02:02:50 AM »

Very nice pictures and explanations, Konstantin - thank you once again!  That A-14 looks very similar to Testors Model Master Light Ghost Gray, which is what I'm now using on my Il-2 interiors (of course, who knows which Il-2's were even painted in A-14!).  At least I seem to have one VVS colour matched fairly well.  Now if I could just get a good match for AMT-4 I'd be happy.  In case anyone's interested (and even if they're not), I use Model Master Green for AMT-4 (too light and bright, but it's the closest I've come), Model Master Russian Topside Blue for AMT-7, Model Master Black for AMT-6, and Model Master Gunship Gray for AMT-12.  I've also decided to try Model Master Afrika Dunkelgrau for AMT-1, the next time I try to paint a plane with that tricky colour.  These are all enamels, as I've never had any luck with airbrushing acrylics (no, not even with Gunze Sangyo Mr. Airbrush Killer Acrylics).

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5694


« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2010, 08:46:18 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the exhaustive photo file and comments.
About the sandy brown on DB-3, who knows if the author was referring to the piece of the last image?  Could it be an altered primer, or a camouflage color?
Regards
Massimo
Logged
John Thompson
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1484



« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2010, 04:20:25 PM »


 Now if I could just get a good match for AMT-4 I'd be happy.  In case anyone's interested (and even if they're not), I use Model Master Green for AMT-4.
Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason - have you tried MM 1714 (Forest Green FS34127)? Compared to the Akan AMT-4 acrylic, MM 1714 is a bit more green, but adding a dab of brown or red would bring it closer. For what it's worth, here's the V&O page which proposes some FS equivalents; AMT-4 is given as FS24151 or FS24102:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxhW8cl0

...and here's the Scalemodels.ru Colours of Soviet Aviation thread, from which that image came:
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic.php?t=954&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0

Among the 9 pages in this thread are some images of VVS wreckage as well.

John
« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 04:22:48 PM by John Thompson » Logged
learstang
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1733



WWW
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2010, 07:27:19 PM »

Thank you John for the links!  I've seen a thread before on scalemodels.ru regarding colours, but I don't think I'd seen that particular one.  That FS24151 is actually pretty close to the Model Master Green, so maybe I'm not as far off as I think I am.  I believe I've already tried Forest Green and found it too dark and not olive enough for my tastes.  It seems that the AMT-4 did have some olive in it, although nothing as much as the (in)famous U.S. Olive Drab.  The AKAN paints may very well be the most accurate paints for VVS subjects, but the problem I have with using them is you have to buy them overseas if you want the enamels (I think my feelings towards acrylics and airbrushes is pretty clear by now), and I'm not sure about the reliability of the supply.  From what I know, AKAN is basically a one-man operation done by Mr. Akhanikin, with the paints being manufactured by a Finnish concern.  I just feel that trying to find a more reliable source, like Model Master paints, is the safer route.  That's why I've tried to find equivalents with Model Masters.  The one equivalent I didn't mention in my previous post is that not only is Light Ghost Gray a pretty good equivalent for A-14 Steel Grey, but I feel it's not bad for AMT-11 (although maybe a bit too light and not blue enough?).  However, until I start building post mid-1943 fighters, that remains a moot point.

Regards,

Jason
Logged

"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon

http://www.learstang.com
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2010, 07:28:15 PM »

About the sandy brown on DB-3, who knows if the author was referring to the piece of the last image?  Could it be an altered primer, or a camouflage color?

Hi Massimo,
There are no relicts of upper surface camouflage paints on those photos.
All DB-3 fragments shown on photos are from the area around the tail wheel, i.e. those are the ?lower surfaces?.    Aleksey, the original poster, wrote that the fragments have been in mud for decades and that the original blue paint has changed to gray.

Cheers,
KL
Logged
KL
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1678


« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2010, 07:59:26 PM »

The real colour of A-14 certainly looks lighter than the Akan acrylic version, although the enamel chip you've shown for comparison is a very good match. I can also see why there was some argument on rec.models.scale, years ago, about VVS aircraft cockpits being finished in RLM 02 - the shade does look similar to me.

Hi John,

I would describe A-14 as medium gray.  Not ?light gray? nor ?green-gray?.  If A-14 looks greenish on some wrecks, that?s because of the underlying ALG-1, if it?s light gray that?s the effect of aging and chalking.

RLM 02 is the only German colour I read about and that was only because Legion Condor Me-109s were supposedly painted in that colour.  For decades people believed that those planes were light gray.  Some 10 years ago it was discovered that RLM 02 was gray-green and profiles of gray-green SCW Me-109s became quite fashionable.  It is now generally accepted that those planes were light gray and that they were actually painted in some other paint.
In short, nobody knows how green was RLM 02.  So much about the pedantic Germans and their precise standards Cheesy.

Anyway, IMHO RLM 02 would be a very poor choice for the interior paint of Soviet WWII planes.

Cheers,
KL
Logged
Massimo Tessitori
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 5694


« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2010, 10:38:29 PM »

Thank you Konstantin.
He mentioned it into the text, but it doesn't appear in photos.
Massimo
Logged
marluc
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 418



« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2010, 11:04:03 PM »

Thanks Konstantin for the photos and captions.

IMHO RLM 02 would be a very poor choice for the interior paint of Soviet WWII planes.
I agree,RLM 02 is a grey green paint and ALG-1 looks more like a yellowish green.Greetings.

Martin
Logged
John Thompson
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1484



« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2010, 11:10:44 PM »

My wife keeps telling me I need a new monitor...  Embarrassed

John
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 6
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!