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Author Topic: Interior colours for Yak's, Lavochkin, Pe-2, Il-2, Mig 3, I-16 ?  (Read 51005 times)
marluc
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« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2010, 11:08:07 PM »

But isn't that a defect in the photo itself, or this print of the photo? Everything looks unnaturally dark, including the grass itself.
Hello John,this is just what I mean.

Hi Massimo,sorry,but I?m still thinking that the different shades between both legs and tires is due to the darker zone on the right.Even the light reflection on the left wing leading edge can be seen as a lighter line,toned down by the defect (or whatever it is) on that side of the photo.

Greetings.

Martin
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #46 on: November 20, 2010, 01:07:06 PM »

Quote
Hi Massimo,sorry,but I?m still thinking that the different shades between both legs and tires is due to the darker zone on the right.Even the light reflection on the left wing leading edge can be seen as a lighter line,toned down by the defect (or whatever it is) on that side of the photo
.


Hi Martin, Smiley
the difference between nearly white and nearly black legs is visible on the larger photo too; the knee of the closer leg is well visible in front of the door, and can be compared to the other knee.

regards
Massimo
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nsmekanik
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« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2010, 04:39:59 PM »

 


It appears to me that the left side of photo is in direct sunlight, and the right side is in the shadow of a cloud. Looking at the landing gear strut arm(forget what it's called) as it goes into the shadow of the gearbay on the left, and comparing it to the most exposed part of gear leg on the right, I would say the left gear is a lighter color then the right, BUT, there is one of those optical illusion thingys that shows how a shade of grey can appear darker or lighter then itself depending if it is surrounded by lighter or darker shades of grey(if that makes any sense)
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nsmekanik
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« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2010, 04:44:50 PM »

Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what the interior color of the AR-2 might have been? Grin
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KL
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« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2010, 09:22:54 AM »

IMHO, Ar-2 interior colour was the same as SB interior colour - "steel" gray A-14.
You will find some examples of SB interior colour on Page 2 of this tread.

KL 
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nsmekanik
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« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2010, 06:55:23 PM »

IMHO, Ar-2 interior colour was the same as SB interior colour - "steel" gray A-14.
You will find some examples of SB interior colour on Page 2 of this tread.

KL 

Thanks much Grin, however my mistake, I was wanting to write Er-2 not AR-2, but some how I got my wires crossed Angry
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KL
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« Reply #51 on: December 01, 2010, 11:05:08 PM »

Still source No 1 - list of interior colours  by Vahlamov and Orlov, published in M-Hobby magazine 1999-4:




my translation of the part relevant to this thread:




Hope this will help to understand variety of colours.  Different paints for different materials, and different paints in different times.

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 08:23:57 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2010, 08:28:23 AM »

Hi Konstantin, Smiley
thank you for this translation. It's very useful.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2010, 10:32:11 PM »

Back to Il-2 wrecks preserved in the ?GPV Museum? in Kiev   Smiley

Early single-seater:



According to A. Shtan, this is an all metal Shturmovik:  metal rear fuselage is not preserved but peaces of duraluminium are still attached to the rear part of the armored ?bronekorpus?.
There is no paint preserved on the bronekorpus, neither on its exterior nor on its interior (this is common; bronekorpus normally turns into a rusty piece of junk metal).   Some remnants of black-green camouflage are preserved on the wing-fuselage fairing. Wing interior structure is unprotected and unpainted

Judging by its colours only, this Il-2 was made in late summer/autumn 1941 ? time of relocation of aviation industry.

Cheers,
KL  Cool
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learstang
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« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2010, 01:10:16 AM »

Good description, Konstantin!  If this is indeed a metal-fuselage Shturmovik, it's the only wreck I've ever seen of one.  So the model companies are correct - every single-seater must have had a metal-fuselage!  [Sarcasm intended.]

Regards,

Jason
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http://www.learstang.com
KL
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« Reply #55 on: December 07, 2010, 12:34:15 AM »

Il-2 wrecks No 2 from the ?GPW Museum? - Kiev   

Early two-seater:
According to A. Shtan:
?   Straight Metal wings
?   Wooden rear fuselage
?   Rear gunner?s cockpit looks like a ?last minute modification?.  Could have been a factory modification.  Rear machine gun is standard UBT.
?   Wing?s interior primed with yellow-green ?zinc-chromate? of different densities.
?   Rear gunner?s cockpit unpainted




Wing trailing edge minus ailerons.  Upper surfaces were camouflaged in standard 1941-1943 Black-Green scheme.  This part of the wing wasn?t primed: camouflage colours are sprayed directly on duraluminium.  This detail makes A-24m and A-26m oil paints somewhat more likely then AMT nitro paints.




Wing leading edge




Faded underside blue colour and red star turned orange.  Yellow-green zinc-chromate primer visible under blue paint.




Interior side of the wheel-well door.  Factory number is truncated but may indicate Zavod 1 (A. Ruchkovski?s comment).  Since factory number isn?t over painted, A. Shtan concludes that all the interior zinc-chromate is factory painted.


What is this yellow-green colour?  ALG-1 or ALG-5 or something else?

The 'native' tone of zinc chromate crystalline salt is a bright greenish-yellow. When put into a vehicle with binders to make paint, this color would be the raw result.
Such raw Zinc Chromate primer would also give a semi-translucent coating, not very opaque like a pigmented paint or lacquer. This property becomes especially interesting when we consider that aircraft factory instructions often called for just one protective coat of primer. As a consequence, the color of the underlying surface might have a significant effect on the final appearance. For example, raw Zinc Chromate applied on the white background would look yellow, while applied to bare metal aluminum it would look more like apple green.
In US aircraft use in the 1930s to 1940s, the Zinc Chromate primer was frequently used in the raw mixture yellow tone. This is sometimes referred to as Zinc Chromate Yellow.
In the immediate pre-war and early war period, the raw yellow Zinc Chromate primer seems to have been dominating.
From:  http://www.colorserver.net/history/history-zinc-chromate.htm



My guess would be that this is still ALG-1.  It is greener then yellow DB-3 ALG-1, it could be ALG-1 + 6% aluminum powder mentioned in Vahlamov?s & Orlov?s table.




Cheers,
KL 

 
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2010, 12:45:00 AM »

HI Konstantin

THANKS for all the great information you have put in your posts, it has been of great use to me, and I'm sure other members of the forum.
It's great to have these wreck pictures well analysed.

one I did ask about before is this, with the blue-green internal colour (?), reminds a little of the colour i have seen in post war Soviet cockpits.   Any comments on this one?  What part of which aircraft is this?




cheers
T
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #57 on: December 07, 2010, 06:25:21 AM »

Hi Konstantin, Smiley
thank you for the interesting comments to photos.
Some questions:

Quote
Wing trailing edge minus ailerons.  Upper surfaces were camouflaged in standard 1941-1943 Black-Green scheme.  This part of the wing wasn?t primed: camouflage colours are sprayed directly on duraluminium.  This
detail makes A-24m and A-26m oil paints somewhat more likely then AMT nitro paints.

The other images of the undersurface and internal surfaces seem to show a yellowish background. Is it the wing from the same plane?

Quote
Interior side of the wheel-well door.  Factory number is truncated but may indicate Zavod 1 (A. Ruchkovski?s comment).  Since factory number isn?t over painted, A. Shtan concludes that all the interior zinc-chromate is factory painted.

The different struts of the landing gear doors appear to be in different colors. Couldn't this be the effect of an anodic treatment made before assembilng the door, on the separate components, instead that ALG-1?
Maybe the treatment was made only on one side of the plate before cutting and riveting, so the inner of wing appears yellowish, and the outside appears simply painted with oil paints.


Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #58 on: December 07, 2010, 08:44:39 AM »

Some questions:
The other images of the undersurface and internal surfaces seem to show a yellowish background. Is it the wing from the same plane?

Yes, it's the same plane.  Two Il-2 wrecks are piled up there, the "early two-seater" is easily recognizable by black-green exterior and "apple grean" interior.

Jason might be able to say when was this plane made?  Straight metal wings + wooden rear fuselage + "last minute" rear gunner cockpit.

The different struts of the landing gear doors appear to be in different colors. Couldn't this be the effect of an anodic treatment made before assembilng the door, on the separate components, instead that ALG-1?
Maybe the treatment was made only on one side of the plate before cutting and riveting, so the inner of wing appears yellowish, and the outside appears simply painted with oil paints.

For what I know, anodized duraluminium is dull gray.

Regardx,
KL

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #59 on: December 07, 2010, 12:46:31 PM »

Hi Konstantin,
Quote
For what I know, anodized duraluminium is dull gray.

Perhaps not. In this table, it is described as yellowish-greenish



Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: December 07, 2010, 06:06:32 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
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