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Author Topic: Aviakollektia VVS Colours 1941 - 1945  (Read 34743 times)
KL
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« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2010, 11:22:59 PM »

I have finished doing what I can with that text, so if anyone would like to have a go at it, to clean up the mess I've made and translate the words I haven't been able to translate, that would be great.

Hi Jason,
I can try to clean up the mess, e-mail me your translation.

Cheers,
KL
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learstang
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« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2010, 01:14:51 AM »

Thank you, Konstantin!  That would be great - I will send you what I have.

Regards,

Jason
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2011, 02:18:53 AM »

In this regard, we cite the complete text of the letter ST. Ilyushin aircraft industry drug AIShah urinu, dated October 1943 (kept the original spelling and punctuation).
?IL-2 komu flirts with the release of plants with summer and winter to-muflyire.
Winter camouflage painting is made of aircraft chalky paint, which in quality is suitable only for the painting of fences, but not suitable for painting aircraft, firstly because it makes the aircraft extremely rough surface, and secondly, in the process эксплоатации paint lupitsya and aircraft becomes dirty and rough, and even more in the third, when rinsers this paint with hot water is broken canvas covered aircraft and thus the wooden parts will rot.
Plant number 30 in agreement with me suggested that the painting of IL-2 pro -


why does it seem that part of page 12 is missing?
is that how the sentance ends or is there more?
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2011, 07:02:10 AM »

Quote
why does it seem that part of page 12 is missing?
is that how the sentance ends or is there more?


Hi DGM,
it continues at pag.13.
The automatic translator didn't work well with phrases and words broken in two different pages, but the text is here:

Quote
It was painted an IL-2 by type of Yak and LA and presented for approval by the Chief Engineer Air Force spacecraft v. Repin. Tov. Repin rejected our proposal. Thus still remain for the winter camouflage coloring Cretaceous Il-2. Tov. Repin in an interview with the director of plant number 30 TOV. SMIRNOVA suggested that the loss of speed caused by chalky paint is of no importance for the Il-2.
I think you need to report their disagreement to the color of the aircraft IL-2 chalky paint.
Plants of the aviation industry is working to improve the production of Il-2 in order to increase the maximum speed of the aircraft, but the improvement works are carried out much effort and work. Nevertheless, regardless of that, here, at the same factory, after a well-finished surface of the aircraft, aircraft razmalevyvaetsya as the most common fence. Of course, no desire for workers in factories to work to improve the aerodynamics of the aircraft IL-2 will not be because all of these works is also destroyed.
I request you to raise this issue with the Secretary of the Central Committee of VKP (b) TOV. Malenkova abolishing painting IL-2 in white komuflyazh and adopt a single color for the type of fighter ?.
The text can be seen not only discontent with paint MK-7. but then, at what level to address color: freedom of action of the chief designer had only one color at ?a? aircraft. However, accidentally or not, but his troubles were not quite empty, and have been developed at the end of 1944

Regards
Massimo
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Dark Green Man
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« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2011, 08:34:24 PM »

Thank You
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"when we lose the right to be different, we lose the priviledge to be free"--Charles Evans Hughes
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2013, 05:29:18 PM »

Hi,
thanks to Misos, an improved version of the translation is available.
If someone is interested to receive the .doc file, please write a mail.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2013, 07:19:14 AM »

Hi,
a further improvement of the translation is available thanks to Misos.
Again, who is interested can require it by private mail.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2013, 01:47:24 PM »

Hi,
I had O-V text in my hands recently, here are some interesting point from there:

Paints
What is protective color? ...green color with yellowish or yellowish-brown tint. Later the name ?Oliva? began to be applied. The official name of the color dope brands AII 3 [?3? in Cyrillic represents the letter ?Z? for ?Zaschitnyi? ? ?Protective?] had been ?protective? (protective in the sense of protecting the aircraft). Often, however, the letter ?3? stands for ?Zelenyi?, e.g. ?green?.

AMT-11 was medium-dark. AMT-12 and oil enamel A-32jm were sufficiently dark, nearly black, AMT-12 dope being slightly darker than the A-32m.

In contrast to widely spread meaning, only AMT paints were used. No car, no tank, generally no non-aviation paints were ever used. (Sukov's P-39?)

Painted surfaces were polished with cloths...

At the beginning of the war an attempt was made to simplify the rules of painting internal surfaces? paint consisting of equal parts of ALG-1 and A-14 enamel or primer ALG-1 with the addition of 6% aluminium powder
Wooden surfaces had four main options for coloring:
? two layers of Al dope on grey nitroprimer DD-113;
? two layers of grey chlorvinyl enamel DD-118B (enamel DD-118 applied in three layers). Because of a zinc white shortage of could be made with an aluminium powder, grey color changed to silver grey (LaGG-3 aluminium painted interior?)

Identification Markings
There are no rules without exceptions? Sometimes the combat forces, instead of white outlined stars outlined the stars in aluminium or yellow.

The numbers came from the factory part number denoting the number of the aircraft in the series. The color was usually white?with black, red or blue outline

156th IAP - alternating red and silver stripes on the tail (also Dolgushin?s La-7 ?93??)

Victory marks
Major-General A. Osipenko approved a provision. According to the document shot down enemy planes should be shown as a five-pointed red star 15 cm in size, outlined by aluminium paint stripe of width 1 cm?

?sometimes painted on the rectangle background, usually red, so-called ?board? or plaque. It was official in the 7th Air Force. In the 324th IAD, a member of this Army, was issued the order on February 1945, determining the dimensions of ?board?: 50 x 25 cm outlined with a 1 cm wide white line. (Galchenko?s La-5F?)

Regards,
      66misos
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 02:30:38 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2013, 04:05:44 PM »

Very interesting notes, Misos.
According to Hornat (I suppose that it's a partial translation of the article of Orlov on postwar colors) the use of DD-118 started in 1943.
Thank you again for your work to improve the translation.
I hope you could do something on the articles on prewar and postwar colors too; unfortunately we haven't a complete automatic translation of them to use as a base.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2013, 04:08:37 PM »

Hi Misos,
Another comment on V-O:
Quote
The numbers came from the factory part number denoting the number of the aircraft in the series
This was certainly true for Lavockins that received their numbers in the factory. Other types received them in the unit, and they could have made so, or in different way. Some planes received two different numerations painted on, and they can't be both based on the factory number.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2013, 06:15:31 PM »

Hi,

nice picture how victory stars were painted http://visualrian.ru/ru/site/gallery/#247:


   66misos

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2013, 08:44:32 PM »

Very interesting. The red stars are painted with a mask, the white outline with a thin brush.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2013, 01:55:22 PM »

Hi,
here are examples of blue outlined board numbers, mentioned in O-V text:

1.) original (La-5) wreck:


2.) reconstructed Kozhedub's La-7 from Moscow:

Note single-grey painting of the plane.

   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2013, 04:43:30 PM »

Hi Misos,
If I don't miss, this piece is from a La-5FN; on this type, bort numbers were painted in factory, so it's likely that they were all identically blue outlined.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2013, 12:07:20 PM »

Hi,
two cents to discussion about single-grey AMT painting during WWII. Orlov-Vakhlamov write in their text: "There are no rules without exceptions."
So look at these photos:
1.) AMT-11 http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_954_start_20.html

Akanin's comment: "Так и есть - одноцветный... Но только в чём здесь вопрос то? Такие самолеты были, и их не так уж мало. Позднее, с 1945 года это стало нормой."
So it is - single-color... But what is the issue here? Such planes were, and not so little. Later, in 1945 it became the norm.
And picture of Akan AMT-11 paint is included.

2.) AMT-12? http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=818.msg4801#msg4801


3.) mix of AMT11 and AMT-12 http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1502.msg10958#msg10958

156th IAP - alternating red and silver stripes on the tail?  (from O-V text)

Regards,
    66misos
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 12:11:37 PM by 66misos » Logged

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