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Author Topic: Aviakollektia VVS Colours 1941 - 1945  (Read 35520 times)
KL
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2013, 08:29:03 PM »

Exceptions, planes overpainted in field = non-standard/unofficial schemes.  Pilawski writes about official schemes, about planes that were painted this way in factories.  Reader may conclude that thousands of planes were painted in solid AMT-11 or solid AMT-12 in 1944 and that is not true.


This La-5 was photographed at Poltava airfield in mid 1944.  It's obviously a plane overpainted in field.  Red stars are definitively non-standard.  There is a colour photo of a similarly painted Yak-9 at Poltava airfield.  It's overall light blue, almost certainly AMT-7.  Pilawskii interpreted this colour as the fictional "Wood Aeroluck" (whatever that means).

Period between the end of the war and 1946 is poorly researched.  Vahlamov & Orlov are skipping over this period and write more about overall light blue-gray AMT-16 scheme from 1947.  It looks that both solid blue-gray AMT-11 and solid protective green AMT-4 were used for upper surfaces during this period.  BTW, many photos of solid colour planes in Pilawskii's book are actually post-war photos and his book is supposedly dealing with wartime schemes...

HTH,
KL
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Troy Smith
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« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2013, 02:51:48 AM »

A suggestion for the rise of in-field repaints, post war.

Something to keep ground crews busy, and planes looking neat.  There seems to be evidence of Spitfires being repainted in single uppersurface colours post war as well.
In the VVS there seem to be more victory scrolls and other such decorations appearing as well.

As an aside, the RAF 2nd Tactical Airforce units based in Germany in the Summer of 1945 started getting a variety of of coloured spinners, UC doors, fuselage bands and badges added, undoubtedly for similar reasons.
Volume 4 of Shores and Thomas books on the 2nd TAF has details of these.

In both cases you have large forces awaiting demobilisation and/or redeployment to Japan,  and a military need to keep them 'busy'

No 'proof' but an observation.

HTH
T


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KL
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« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2013, 09:02:51 AM »

keeping ground crews busy could have been one of the reasons, but it doesn't explain why one colour.  For what I gather, 2 or 3 colour disruptive patterns (what Russians call "camouflage") were a wartime measure.  As soon as war ended VVS returned back to peacetime single colour schemes.

Another reason why planes were overpainted after the war was the longer expected service from each airframe.  To achieve this it was important to have paint that would reliably protect wooden and fabric covered planes from the elements (most VVS planes were stored in open!).  During the war it wasn't expected that paint last longer than 6 months.  After the war, paint was expected to last and protect planes from the elements for two years.  Another, more expensive way, was to paint planes more often.

It is true that shortly after the war various personal and unit markings appeared on planes:  it was the time to celebrate victories, awards, there were parades, airshows etc.

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 05:22:05 PM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #48 on: December 19, 2013, 10:22:59 AM »

Hi,
the passing to glossy paints in peacetime (both before and after the GPW) is related with a longer expectance of life both of planes and of paints: a glossy finished surface is less vulnerable both to moisture and friction.
Besides a glossy finish allows to reduce drag a bit.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2014, 12:45:08 AM »

I had O-V text in my hands recently...
Identification Markings
There are no rules without exceptions? Sometimes the combat forces, instead of white outlined stars outlined the stars in aluminium or yellow...

I just found this picture on web:

I do not know what is it from. Picture name says Yak-9. The star outline looks aluminium.

Regards,
   66misos
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learstang
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« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2014, 01:17:27 AM »

Nice photograph, 66misos! That does indeed look like the star is outlined in aluminium paint.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #51 on: July 15, 2014, 01:17:49 AM »

I have mentioned silver many times (Musee de l'Air Yak-3 has stars outlined in silver).

Can you find a single case of yellow outline.... except in Pilawskii's book and old western literature?
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66misos
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« Reply #52 on: July 15, 2014, 07:36:40 AM »

Hi KK,
My quotation above is from my post #37 in this thread about some interesting info from Orlov-Vakhlamov (e.g. O-V) text. So O-V also write about yellow as real alternative for the outline of the red stars.
Nevertheless, my post above was about aluminium outline, how it looks at daylight. You are right, there is no color photo known to me showing authentic VVS yellow outline.
Regards,
   66misos
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66misos
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« Reply #53 on: September 11, 2014, 06:10:57 AM »

Hi,
at http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_9320_start_100.html I found nice photo of Yak-9 in Poltava:


It nicely shows:
- AMT-11 and AMT-12 in quite dark tones,
- silver outlined red star.

Regards,
    66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #54 on: September 11, 2014, 06:56:46 AM »

Hi Misos,
coudn't it be a colorized image? Colors look very uniform in hue, I would expect more 'noise' on an original color photo.
Besides, the hue of the oil cooler looks the same of the upper surface, while it should be as on the undersurface.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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« Reply #55 on: September 11, 2014, 12:16:07 PM »

Massimo,
may be colorized, may be not, I do not know. The photo is from the base where also Americans were with their B-17 etc., so this Yak could be photographed by them. And, IMHO, photo was enhanced/retouched latter at least when prepared for that book cover.

Plus, what about these planes:

- no. "19" - fuselage star outline is silver or polished white?


- no. "16" - top of the fuselage star:


Regards,
    66misos
« Last Edit: September 11, 2014, 01:19:52 PM by 66misos » Logged

66misos
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« Reply #56 on: November 16, 2014, 07:37:37 PM »

Hi,
I found interesting post at airforce.ru forum in the discussion about colorized La-5FN today regarding VVS colors:
- green / single-color camouflages started to appear in 1944,
- they demanded also La-7 in single-color and brighter. For example Factory no. 31 produced La-7 only in salad-green color. Those from Moscow went without blotches.
 Huh Huh Huh
I am corious for responses (at airforce.ru forum).
Regards,
    66misos

« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 07:50:46 PM by 66misos » Logged

learstang
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« Reply #57 on: November 16, 2014, 08:15:59 PM »

That's certainly news to me. I thought that the single-green camouflage was purely post war.

Regards,

Jason
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KL
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« Reply #58 on: November 17, 2014, 06:05:45 AM »


I found interesting post at airforce.ru forum in the discussion about colorized La-5FN today regarding VVS colors:
- green / single-color camouflages started to appear in 1944,
- they demanded also La-7 in single-color and brighter. For example Factory no. 31 produced La-7 only in salad-green color. Those from Moscow went without blotches.
 Huh Huh Huh
I am corious for responses (at airforce.ru forum).


Hi Misos,

It's Stankov again... any information coming from him is suspicious.  He has spread so much disinformation so far that you should not waste your time asking him questions or spreading around his answers...

In this case, Zavod 31 (Tbilisi) did not produce a single La-7!!!  After LaGG-3s Tbilisi factory switched to Yak-3s...

Stankov is talking about non-existent La-7s and he even knows the colour of those non-existent La-7s!!!

People at AIF are making jokes with him:  somebody asked about Zavod 18 La-7s...

Cheers,
KL
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learstang
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« Reply #59 on: November 17, 2014, 06:19:43 AM »

Zavod 18 La-7's - that's a good one! I forgot to put that in my book, how after making Il-2's, Zavod 18 switched to La-7's.  Smiley

Regards,

Jason
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