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Author Topic: Vitocharts Colour Card  (Read 7440 times)
cdk
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« on: December 29, 2010, 10:07:19 PM »

Hello to all,

is someone here on the board who know something about the VVS card No10 ? I have a example and it contains brush painted colour chips. But how usefull they are ? I think the card is produced in the 1970er years in Italy.
Every Info is greatly wellcome.

Best wishes for 2011

Claus
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learstang
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« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2010, 01:13:21 AM »

Hello to all,

is someone here on the board who know something about the VVS card No10 ? I have a example and it contains brush painted colour chips. But how usefull they are ? I think the card is produced in the 1970er years in Italy.
Every Info is greatly wellcome.

Best wishes for 2011

Claus

I haven't heard about this card, but given the date, I have my doubts about its usefulness or accuracy.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2010, 06:48:33 AM »

Hi Claus,
never heard.  I agree with Jason, probaby it's by far obsolete. However, it could be interesting to see a scan. Would you show it, please?
Massimo
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cdk
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2010, 03:47:40 PM »

Hello Massimo,

unfortunately my e-mail provider Freenett have some trouble. I can't send or receive e-mail by that time.
I have send now a mail with some pic's to you from my daughter's PC. Have a look at " VITOCARD ". Maybe check the Spamfilter.

Claus
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learstang
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2010, 05:48:04 PM »

Massimo, would you please post Claus's colour card here?  I'm also interested to see it.  Thank you!

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2010, 08:26:43 AM »

Hi Claus
I haven't yet received your mail, not even in the spam. Could you check the address and try again, please?
Thank you
Massimo
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cdk
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« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2010, 03:25:47 PM »

Hello Massimo,

my first mail was to large. I send it again i 4 parts.

Happy New Year to ALL

Claus
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2011, 11:45:06 AM »

Hi Claus,
thank you for your interesting files. I've tried to reduce them in a form suitable for a forum.
Here is the first one, showing the scans of the table:




the second one resumes some color comparisons made by Claus with Humbrol , Revell e FS.










Quote
Here I have include some colour pic's.
The I-153 ans SB are scanned from Luftwaffe im Focus Spezial I/2003.
My guess on the SB is Green A-19f and Blue A-18f.



Maybe A-19f is a colour in  range with FS 34108 - Humbrol76 ? I know I am guessing from a colour pic, but see also the finding from Boris on the TB-3.
The undersite is matched to Humbrol 65, but a mix of 65 and 115 works well too.




Quote
The I-153 shows nicely the Silver and AE-9 colours. NB: Humbrol 34 mixed with Humbrol 127 works very well for AE-9 / FS 15630.


Quote
Finally the TB3 pic.It was scanned from a Modell Magazin Foto Archiv, but i don't know the number.
Again I make A guess. Khaki and greyblue. The mix with Humbrol 87+115+23 wok on the pic well. Unfortunaly I have it not scanned



Here is a post in an old forum.

Massimo




« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 05:29:38 PM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2011, 05:42:26 PM »

Hi Claus:
some comments to the files:
the table is interesting, but one should ask something both on the sources and on the notes on the use of colors included in the publication, if any.
I see a lot of browns, and few greys. If you have further informations or text, it would be interesting to know more.
The color images of SB and I-153 are very very good.
I've tried a further improvement on the one of SB, perhaps I'll upload it some days.
The one on I-16 helps not too much with colors, I've tried to improve it with not fully convincing results.
So the one on TB-3, where the sky was probably colorized and the original colors are poor, including the pink star and the white faces of men. However, the combination of khaki or 3B with black and grey-blue is likely.

Best regards
Massimo
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cdk
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« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2011, 12:14:50 PM »

Hello Massimo,

Thank you for  your work to post the pic's. Unfortunately i have no more information.
As you can see on the SB, Humbrol 80 is to yellow for that SB. But why not A-19f starts as a colour like Humbrol 80 and after some wear it looks more like Humbrol 76, as you wrote "...faded quickly to a lighter shade."

For the Vitocard itself I will say it is very unlucky that the producer don't give any reference where the matches come from. I have some more Vitocard, Italy,France,USA and GB. All without any reference.

Claus
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2011, 04:34:32 PM »

Quote
As you can see on the SB, Humbrol 80 is to yellow for that SB. But why not A-19f starts as a colour like Humbrol 80 and after some wear it looks more like Humbrol 76, as you wrote "...faded quickly to a lighter shade."
Hi Claus,
I see your point, but I can't add anything sure.  I wouldn't use so old color photos for colors comparison, because the color of the sky doesn't match with actual sky, so it's likely that the light blue of undersurfaces doesn't match with the original shade, and possibly the green. Luckily there is the green of grass to make possible some comparisons.
In other words, I can't add much to your point, only the suggestion to have a look to the photos of MiG-3 pieces in Veesiveehma posted somewhere on this forum.
Best regards
Massimo

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KL
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« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 09:11:45 PM »

Claus, thanks for the interesting scans!

The chart is a good illustration of how Soviet colours were interpreted in 1970-ies. The interpretation itself is completely outdated, should be classified among the ?Western misconceptions about VVS colours?. But, since some of those misconceptions are still present in the modeling community, it is important to trace their origin.


It looks that the colours were derived from British (both RAF and Navy) colours.  Standard British names were used to define some of the colours:
?   ?Dark earth?, ?light earth? and ?middle stone? for shades of brown (except for 1943-45 AMT-1, colours nonexistent in VVS)
?   ?Sky? (duck egg) for light green-yellow (both colour and its name unknown in VVS)
?   ?Khaki? for dark green (dark green doesn?t correspond to the meaning of the word khaki in English language)   
?   ?Insignia Blue? ? obviously for British, not Soviet insignia, etc


On the bright side, this card is probably the first reference of the term ?Zashchitniy? (protective) for the upper surface green.

Phonetic transcription of Russian names is given in Polish; this probably explains origin of the information.




SB made by Zavod 22 in first half of 1940.  Factory painted in glossy gray AE-9.  Upper surfaces green is brush painted in field (probably to comply with the May 1940 order).  Green paint is probably A-19f ? looks darker than green-yellow vegetable field in the background.
IMHO: AE-9 lower surfaces and A-19f upper surfaces.




UTI-4 upper surfaces are definitely AII Z.  Depending on the time when the plane was made, lower surfaces are either AII Gray (1938 to mid-1940) or AII Blue (after mid-1940).




TB-3:  old style red star shows that the plane is painted in mid-1930 paints ? dark green ?Zashchitniy? for upper surfaces and light blue-gray for lower surfaces.

Cheers,
KL

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cdk
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« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2011, 11:41:29 AM »

Hello KL,

I too was thinking that the chart include some British and US colours. This may be not so wrong, because of all the Lend Lease aircraft used in such colours by the VVS.
For the SB. Have a look for the undersurface colour and the colour of the rear gunners compartment. Both are the same "Blue". But on the original pic in Luftwaffe in Focus the clouds have a light greenish colour. I guess that the gunners compartment is in the factory applied AE-9 and also the underside.

Thank you for reply

Claus
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