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Author Topic: new page on colors of Soviet planes pre-1937  (Read 28463 times)
learstang
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« Reply #45 on: March 05, 2011, 05:57:39 AM »

Yeah, nothing like having what looks like a wooden gummi bear on top of an artefact of the most vicious and bloody invasion of all time.
Something just a bit inappropriate about that.  Like putting a smiley face on top of a photo of a long line of Stalingrad prisoners.

Regards,

Jason
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 06:12:06 AM by learstang » Logged

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #46 on: March 05, 2011, 08:58:07 PM »

Hi John and Jason,
nice image, very sharp. Pity for the bear, but maybe the star could be utilized in some way.
Hi Konstantin, I had a look at the links. Not bad, thank you.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2011, 12:03:28 AM »

Massimo, I'm sure you'll be able to "Photoshop" our little friend out the way.  The photo certainly shows off the circle in star well.

Regards,

Jason
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John Thompson
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« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2011, 03:43:45 AM »

Massimo - a page or two back, you requested images of Il-2's in green/black upper surface camouflage. Here's what I've found so far; some of these are only parts of aircraft, but I hope they are helpful.

Regarding Konstantin's request for Il-4/DB-3F and SB images (reply #27 in this thread), I'm afraid I can't offer anything - all I've been saving have been single-engined types; I'm sorry!



























John
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learstang
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« Reply #49 on: March 06, 2011, 04:39:23 AM »

Nice Shturmovik photographs, John!  Looks like my collection just got a little bit larger.

Regards,

Jason
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #50 on: March 06, 2011, 08:08:24 AM »

Hi John,
thank you for your help. Now I can try to make correlations with the photos I have.
I've collected photos of Su-2 and recognized at least two standardized camo schemes, plus some other ones that perhaps were not. If I can ask, have you photos of camouflaged Su-2s too, please?
Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #51 on: March 06, 2011, 05:52:35 PM »

Images of Su-2 with green/black upper surfaces; I hope the pattern is visible on these. You may have to brighten some of them up a bit to see it.













I wish I had more - for some reason, I really like the Su-2, but it was obviously not as common as the Il-2!

John

(Oops - the same image is there twice, from two different sources! Sorry - I guess I have even fewer images than I thought! Sad )
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #52 on: March 06, 2011, 06:47:25 PM »

Thank you John, these images will be helpful. I'm going to compare them to the other ones, and I hope to produce some sketches too.
By the way, did you find images of silver Su-2 too?
Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #53 on: March 06, 2011, 07:34:10 PM »

Thank you John, these images will be helpful. I'm going to compare them to the other ones, and I hope to produce some sketches too.
By the way, did you find images of silver Su-2 too?
Regards
Massimo

My pleasure; no, I haven't seen any silver Su-2 images. All the ones I've saved are either green only or green and black. I'll watch for silver ones!

John
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learstang
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« Reply #54 on: March 06, 2011, 08:58:28 PM »

Massimo, I've been looking at my black/green IL-2 photographs and the patterns seem to be all over the place.  It does seem that the nose was usually painted black, but other than that, it's hard to see set patterns.  It's not like the 1943 NKAP schemes.  As a matter of fact, I notice in the V&O articles in MHobby, they didn't have any pattern drawings for the black/green scheme.  However, I'll keep looking and see if I can't determine some repeatedly used patterns or schemes.  Maybe Mr. Lesnikov can shed some light on this question.  Below is a lineup of IL-2 straight-winged two-seaters (at the factory?) that all appear to be painted in a common black-green pattern. 

Regards,

Jason

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John Thompson
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« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2011, 03:41:13 AM »

Thank you John, these images will be helpful. I'm going to compare them to the other ones, and I hope to produce some sketches too.
By the way, did you find images of silver Su-2 too?
Regards
Massimo

More Su-2 images on avia-n-aero here:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=28&parent_id=28

Also notice the links to Su-2 albums on the same site in the top left corner of that page; these are (mostly) different images from the ones in the link above, grouped together for some special purpose such as several photos of the same aircraft. So far I've seen one or two which might be a worn aluminum colour; definitely not green, and it doesn't look like white, either.

Same thing for Ilyushins, including Il-2:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=21&parent_id=21

John
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 04:09:14 AM by John Thompson » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2011, 07:38:57 AM »

Hi Jason,
thank you for the image, it'll be useful.Smiley
The standard NKAP template of 1941 was much more utilized than I thought, even if with some variations due to the proportions of the plane. I thaced a scheme for Pe-2 yesterday night, and it has much in common, but the 'half-balls' on the sides were transformed into a whole band. I saw the NKAP on the most part of Yaks, Lavochkins, some early Il-2s, Yak-6s, some Su-2, and other types are still to check. The scheme for many MiG-3s is similar, if we remove the half-balls from the rear fuselage, too short, and add a green band on the long nose.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2011, 04:44:19 PM »

...  By the way, did you find images of silver Su-2 too?

More Su-2 images on avia-n-aero here:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=28&parent_id=28

... So far I've seen one or two which might be a worn aluminum colour; definitely not green, and it doesn't look like white, either.

Su-2 (BB-1) production was very slow at the beginning (first half of 1940).  In first three months of 1940 only 5 planes were made.  Further 29 planes were made in the second quarter of the year.  Those 34 planes are probably the only Su-2s not painted in May 1940 scheme.
John made another great find:

 



2 photos are probably showing some of those earliest series Su-2s.

Cheers,
KL
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KL
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« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2011, 07:35:08 PM »

Su-2 prototypes:

SZ-2, first flight 1937





Ivanov M-87A, April 1939



Ivanov M-88, November 1939



First prototype was IMHO light gray AE-9.  It was an all metal plane, SB colours make sense.
1939 prototypes look darker, especially M-87A prototype.  I would not guess there... Lips Sealed

First series BB-1 were light gray -same as SB bombers made in first half of 1940.





Cheers,
KL
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KL
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« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2011, 10:33:05 PM »

Hi Massimo,   Smiley

For your convenience I started a new tread about 1941 Black-Green camouflage scheme at
http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=728c95623784512fccf5ee0a8008ae19&topic=957.msg5433#new

You may also consider renaming this tread into something like ?Pre-1941 schemes?.

Cheers,
KL
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 10:53:56 PM by KL » Logged
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