Amodel News for 2011

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Eugeny,
I've modified the profile of the nose and of the lower part of rudder, as visible on photos.
For what I have seen on photos, a limit of the new kit is that it doesn't allow to show the coolers in the characteristic downed position.
Regards
Massimo

[Eugeny Knupfer]

I've modified the profile of the nose and of the lower part of rudder, as visible on photos.

I noticed that, and the resulting drawing is definitely better than the original. But I think there's more to it. I tried to look at the differences between three I-17's cowlings here, and it seems that all three have slightly different shapes. I think my picture illustrates it. The most important difference is in the lower cowling - for TsKB-19 it should be a little  deeper than in your drawing. The upper area is slightly different too, at least in TsKB-19 (hard to say about TsKB-19bis, beacause of the poor quality of the photo). As I have already mentioned, there are also differences in  cylinder fairings (they are much shorter on 19/bis). Some cowling panel shapes are different, as is the cockpit door. A lot of subtle differences.

For what I have seen on photos, a limit of the new kit is that it doesn't allow to show the coolers in the characteristic downed position.

Yes, it looks that way. Although I think it is the least of our troubles with that kit.

By the way, another Amodel's error, that I forgot to mention in the review - it looks like all I-17's had a retractable tail skid, at least this walkaround of TsKB-15 and the archive drawings of TsKB-19 clearly show that. Not sure about TsKB-19bis, but I would speculate that this feature was also retained on this version.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Eugeny,

By the way, another Amodel's error, that I forgot to mention in the review - it looks like all I-17's had a retractable tail skid, at least this walkaround of TsKB-15 and the archive drawings of TsKB-19 clearly show that. Not sure about TsKB-19bis, but I would speculate that this feature was also retained on this version.

 
Are you sure that it is retracted? It looks bent on a side, The first I-17 ended his first flight with a bad landing, perhaps the piece was broken on that occasion or later. I think that it had the possibilty to bend slightly rearwards to adsorb shocks, but it was hurted too strongly.
I've observed the photos, and I have to agree that the cowling is slightly different between 19 and 19bis, Besides the canopy of 19 is slightly higher than that of 15, and so it has to be its fuselage back.
I wonder if there is a reliable way to decide if the plane was painted red or green. The lack of stars suggests red. But the dark glossy color with unpainted nose (the first configuration) suggests the colors of I-3, that is (probably) green.
Regards
Massimo

[Eugeny Knupfer]

Are you sure that it is retracted? It looks bent on a side, The first I-17 ended his first flight with a bad landing, perhaps the piece was broken on that occasion or later. I think that it had the possibility to bend slightly rearwards to adsorb shocks, but it was hurted too strongly.

I think we can be certain that retractable skid was installed on, or at least planned for TsKB-19. It can be proven by this fragment of TsKB-19 general layout drawing from Polikarpov design bureau archive:



I haven't seen any photos of either I-17 variant where tail skid is clearly visible. The best TsKB-19 photo from Paris has some unfortunate plant obscuring the area of interest. However, the tail skid of the surviving TsKB-15, although significantly damaged, still looks similar to the one on TsKB-19 drawing. So, I think we can assume that the skid was retractable on TsKB-15 and -19 and - probably - on bis as well.

I wonder if there is a reliable way to decide if the plane was painted red or green. The lack of stars suggests red. But the dark glossy color with unpainted nose (the first configuration) suggests the colors of I-3, that is (probably) green.

Well, after following numerous discussions about determining colors from black-and-white photographs I can say with certainty that no, we can not be sure if it was red or green. I am not an expert on Soviet colors, but it seems to me that red is more plausible. It was a somewhat common color for experimental aircraft (for example, Polikarpov's I-15 and I-16 prototypes were painted red, as well as TsKB-15). I-3 was painted blue on the undersides, which was a standard scheme at that time. But on TsKB-19bis there is no visible demarcation between green and blue, and I don't think any Soviet aircraft of that era were painted green overall. Anyway, nothing can be proven here, but for me red seems more probable.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Eugeny,
it looks really retractable. I am surprised.

Isn't there any textual source of that age about painting of those prototypes? I have seen many all-green prewar prototypes on magazines, but I don't know if it was right. I suppose that a green prototype should have a red star visible on photos.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

I have seen many all-green prewar prototypes on magazines, but I don't know if it was right. I suppose that a green prototype should have a red star visible on photos.

Profiles in magazines are probably wrong (result of straight photo interpretation).

Prototypes didn't necessarily have to have red stars.  Most prototypes were painted like racers, or painted like "Krasnaya Pyaterka" airshow planes -  overall red.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin,
I suppose dark cherry red. The I-15 looks darker of the color of the red star inscribed in the circle. I have seen color photos of pieces of the 'moskva' DB-3 that are painted in two shades of red, normal and dark.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

TsKB-30 "Moskva" part from http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/b/374/1/0/32_a1

[Massimo Tessitori]

Here is the second piece.

Regards
Massimo

[KL]

I suppose dark cherry red.... I have seen color photos of pieces of the 'moskva' DB-3 that are painted in two shades of red, normal and dark.

Massimo, do you have more photos of TsKB-30 parts???

Cherry red is a nonstandard colour.  IMHO the plane was painted in A-13 red to look like the "red banner" or "red star".  Sometimes engine necelles of this plane were depicted as blue - maybe they were painted in darker shade of red and that is where your part is coming from?





Cheers,
KL  

[learstang]

Could the semi-circular cutout in the dark red piece be where the main wheel protruded?  By the way, I have seen photographs of a pre-production IL-2 single-seater in an overall glossy paint scheme, probably A-19F and AII Z (Green).

Regards,

Jason

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin and Jason,
both photos were posted on the old Airwarfare forum and quoted as from the same plane, the Moskva. On the bw photos than I saw then, I had the impression that all the plane was cherry red, except for the engine cowlings that were red. This is not the same impression of the redraw photo posted here.
I suppose that the circular cutout has something to do with the shape of retracted wheel and was from behind the bays, but I don't know well this plane. I wasn't able to localize the other panel, perhaps one can try with a good line drawing.
I have still the whole topic on my hd and some photos of the plane, but they are not decisive. The first look is that of a uniformly-colored plane. Perhaps the film doesn't distinguish between usual red and cherry red.
Regards
Massimo

[KL]

I have still the whole topic on my hd and some photos of the plane, but they are not decisive. The first look is that of a uniformly-colored plane. Perhaps the film doesn't distinguish between usual red and cherry red.

When photos are better reproduced, the engine necelles are clearly darker:





Similar record plane "Ukraina"



From:  http://lib.rus.ec/b/276969/read

Cheers,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Thank you, now it's clear.
Massimo

[Eugeny Knupfer]

A little more on the I-17 tail skid mystery. Our colleague Mikhail aka mal16 has taken a few pictures of the area in question in the Chkalov museum. Here they are: