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Lend-Lease P-40K
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Author Topic: Lend-Lease P-40K  (Read 30566 times)
John Thompson
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« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2011, 10:04:51 PM »

Looks excellent; great photos, too! I've been having the same challenge redoing panel lines on a vacuform I'm working on; one tool that works well is one of those very fine files which has a flat surface on one side and a slightly corved surface on the other, and tapers to a sharp point at the end. The toothed edge of the file is almost like a knife, and it can be used to extend panel lines from an undamaged area across the places where the original lines have been sanded away or filled in by going slowly and using a very light touch for the first few strokes.

John
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JP
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« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2011, 10:12:27 PM »

Here's what I have in the decal library.  Since I have no decals for an actual P-40K, these would all be essentially generic representations.

First up, some generic white numbers in a hand painted style.

White 27 from a MiG-3 sheet:


White 29 from an Il-2 sheet:


White 24 from a Ki-84 sheet (Japanese).  Problem with these is that they are old Tamiya decals and really more of a creamy yellowed white:


And now my favorite.  These are some oddball decals for armor, but they are the right size more or less and have inscriptions!  For these, either the number White 41 or 53, and the Mstitel inscription along the spine:



Thoughts?  I suppose if it had to be an actual aircraft, I could try masking the number for an actual aircraft.
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learstang
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2011, 01:38:57 AM »

John, I like the red inscription "Smert' Nemetskim Okkupantam!" - "Death to the German Invaders!" - if you're just making a 'plane up, you've got to use that inscription!  "Mstitel"'s nice also.

Regards

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
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« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2011, 02:22:25 AM »

Hi JP,

I think you manage to do a fine job with the tail.

Glad you like my K.
More pictures of the build here:
http://www.master194.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=54893
It's in french but if you have any question feel free to ask.

As for a K in the Leningrad area I checked what I had in my files.
Not too much since the Ks were rare in the USSR. A bit over 300 on a total of around 2500 P-40s.
I got some info on a red 26 in the winter 1943.
From Planes and Pilots 03 - Curtiss P-40 from 1939 to 1945


From Red stars 3:

and

Red stars says it's natural metal but I doubt it.

Of course you can do Kuznecov white 23 like mine  Cheesy

I have also the decals for Denisov's K.
But it's in the Black sea and the are supposed to be Earth, Middlestone and azure blue.
But I was unable to confirm this scheme.

If you want this decoration I can put the decals in the mail free of charge.

>  I think it's fair to say it should be in the British temperate land scheme.
Yes and no. Colors where US interpretation of the brit colors and made by Du Pont in the USA.

Lot of info on the subject here:
http://amair4raf.blogspot.com/

All the best.

Jean
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JP
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2011, 02:41:54 AM »

You talked me into it - I will begin painting in preparation for Denisov's aircraft.  Thanks for the offer.  I will message you my address.  Still, the desire to make a Mstitel . . . I will need another kit!   Roll Eyes

Here's another little update.  AMT decided to make the attachment points of the clear parts in a really bad place - right on the glass part and not the frame.  The red arrows depict where these attachment points were.  Despite my attempt to carefully remove the part, there were two bumps from the sprue right on the front canopy!  What a bad engineering decision.  I tried carefully cutting them away, but there were still two annoying little distortions in the "glass".  There was only one thing to do - sand them off.  Yes, I fully sanded these clear parts the same as any plastic.  Can you tell?   Wink

« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 05:41:10 AM by JP » Logged
JP
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« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2011, 02:57:48 AM »

I found this profile elsewhere -



I suppose this one is done in the desert colors of middlestone and dark earth?

Some interesting discussion on it can be read here, where some of you have already been engaged   Cheesy :
http://s362974870.onlinehome.us/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=213929&st=0&p=2032705&

Jean, an interesting thing about your build at the other forum was this image:

The color under the rear glass appears to be a third color, but an earlier photo shows that this is actually the same brown.  Without a clear, direct color image of that part of a plane, there can be no way to be sure what color is under there it seems.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2011, 06:51:36 AM by JP » Logged
JP
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« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2011, 08:38:52 AM »

Another shot of the clarity of the clear parts after sanding and subsequent restoration.



I'm catching up on some of these forum posts since I've been away so long.  All I can say is -wow- did I miss a lot of controversy!
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marluc
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« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2011, 02:38:57 PM »

Hello John:

You`ve done a good job on the windshield.Regarding the P-40Ks,I?ve this picture of three birds captioned as belonging to 7 IAP and the last one in the line has a sharkmouth:





Hope it helps,greetings.

Martin
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2011, 04:56:21 PM »

Hi John,
really a good job, the transparence is very good. What was the final treatment to smooth it?
To gue canopies without external frames, I often use 'vinavil' white glue. It assumes a matt finish, and is much less visible both of the unglued thickness of the plastic, both of a surface glued with a more glossy adhesive. Besides, it can be removed with water if unsatisfied of the result.
Regards
Massimo
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JP
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2011, 12:00:21 AM »

@ marluc - thanks for the image.  It is a pity it is almost impossible to tell any more than the type of aircraft and the number.  It would have been nice if the Soviets took pretty pictures like the Germans did.  In this image, without being able to see the tail clearly, the only indication that they are Ks are the fishtail style of exhausts.

@ Massimo - the trick with clear parts.  Use the finer grades of sandpaper from the Testors packs, or any manufacturer really.  Cut the attachment points down as much as you can, then use the 2 or 3 finest grades of sandpaper in sequence to sand it flat.  The glass part will naturally be all scratched up, but not very rough.  Then take a piece of heavy paper and rub it until it is almost clear again.  The heavy paper will do some fine sanding and polish the plastic at the same time.  When you can make it no clearer with the paper rubbing, then dip it into some acrylic floor wax.  Here, it is called Future floor polish.  At first the acrylic will appear to pool in places, but it will dry very flat and very clear.  In many cases, the vision through the glass is actually better than the original part.

Using this method, you can sand away as much as you like on any clear part and not have to worry about it.  You could even thin these parts out if you wanted and restore them in the same way.

As to the Denisov aircraft, here is what I understand based on readings of various forums.  I basically have two questions for which there probably are no solid answers.  **NOTE - I am no expert on anything!  I just keep the lights on here and build models from time to time.  Smiley  I do enjoy trying to figure this stuff out, tho; so here goes!

First, agreed that it is most likely in British desert camouflage.  If the guy says so in his diary, we have to go with that.  British markings have been obviously over-painted in the profile.  On what is this based?  Other than very early deliveries of P-40B/Cs, almost every image of a P-40E and later I can find in Soviet service has no visible over-painting of previous British markings.

Second, what color under the glass???  I checked the Hasegawa kits I have with British desert AF markings, and the color call out says either interior green or khaki green.  I have always heard that camo continued under those windows, and yet we have in this thread a color image clearly showing interior green.  In all the other color images I can find, the color was the base external camo color.  So it would seem Jean was most correct in his P-40 posted here.

I suppose in the end it will be anyone's guess.  But for now I think British desert AF colors, no over-painting of previous British markings, and anything I want under the glass.  
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 01:29:51 AM by JP » Logged
dragonlanceHR
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« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2011, 10:21:33 AM »

"What color is under the glass?" is probably the most asked question after "What is this Future stuff and how is it used?"

Under the glass is the exterior camouflage color, the glass was installed after painting in the factory.

I.e., Olive Drab or Dark Earth/Green, depending on the camo pattern.

That interior colors were used is one of those hard-to-die modeling myths.

Vedran
« Last Edit: June 11, 2011, 10:23:53 AM by dragonlanceHR » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2011, 01:20:35 PM »

Quote
@ Massimo - the trick with clear parts.  Use the finer grades of sandpaper from the Testors packs, or any manufacturer really.  Cut the attachment points down as much as you can, then use the 2 or 3 finest grades of sandpaper in sequence to sand it flat.  The glass part will naturally be all scratched up, but not very rough.  Then take a piece of heavy paper and rub it until it is almost clear again.  The heavy paper will do some fine sanding and polish the plastic at the same time.  When you can make it no clearer with the paper rubbing, then dip it into some acrylic floor wax.  Here, it is called Future floor polish.  At first the acrylic will appear to pool in places, but it will dry very flat and very clear.  In many cases, the vision through the glass is actually better than the original part.

Using this method, you can sand away as much as you like on any clear part and not have to worry about it.  You could even thin these parts out if you wanted and restore them in the same way.

Hi John,
thank you for the answer. I've already heard of Future, but I don't know where to find it here. What is its producer? Is there any matt version of it too?

Regards
Massimo
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John Thompson
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« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2011, 06:35:23 PM »

Quote
@ Massimo - the trick with clear parts.  Use the finer grades of sandpaper from the Testors packs, or any manufacturer really.  Cut the attachment points down as much as you can, then use the 2 or 3 finest grades of sandpaper in sequence to sand it flat.  The glass part will naturally be all scratched up, but not very rough.  Then take a piece of heavy paper and rub it until it is almost clear again.  The heavy paper will do some fine sanding and polish the plastic at the same time.  When you can make it no clearer with the paper rubbing, then dip it into some acrylic floor wax.  Here, it is called Future floor polish.  At first the acrylic will appear to pool in places, but it will dry very flat and very clear.  In many cases, the vision through the glass is actually better than the original part.

Using this method, you can sand away as much as you like on any clear part and not have to worry about it.  You could even thin these parts out if you wanted and restore them in the same way.

Hi John,
thank you for the answer. I've already heard of Future, but I don't know where to find it here. What is its producer? Is there any matt version of it too?

Regards
Massimo

What I liked was the really neat fit of the canopy to the fuselage - the joint looks perfect.

Regarding Future, if I can provide a reply on that one, the manufacturer is S.C. Johnson. It's now called "Pledge with Future Shine", not just "Future" any more. It's an acrylic floor polish; I don't know if there's anything about this particular brand that makes it better for modelling purposes than any other acrylic floor polish, though. I'm sure Johnson's marketing department would like us to believe it is!

(The Other) John
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Apex1701
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« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2011, 08:47:27 PM »

Fore more infos on Future. Read this web page:
http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

Jean
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JP
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« Reply #44 on: June 14, 2011, 10:59:33 PM »

On to the wing . . . yeah.  This is as much trouble as the tail.  The fit frankly sucks.  I won't burden the thread with "before" images, but rather say the fit of the front wing to fuselage under the engine did not match up, and there is the well-known gap at the trailing edge.  Also, the wings as moulded sit flat with no dihedral, where the P-40 had a very pronounced dihedral.

In order to help the leading edge of the wing better match up with the fuselage, I installed a couple of stints made of sprue rod.  These were more or less just cut and cut/sanded to length by repeated test fitting until it got me where I wanted to be.  There is one immediately in front of the resin cockpit bottom and one further forward in the radiator opening.



I intentionally left some gap in the wing root area.  The reason for this is that I needed some space where I could push up the wings to get the dihedral I needed.  However, AMT/ERTL molded solid plastic across the front of the wing.  So I just took a razor saw and cut a slit.



Now after I attach the wing, I can push up the tips and get my dihedral.  And when I push up the wings, the gaps I left will close and be superglued.
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