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Elabourately Painted IL-2
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Author Topic: Elabourately Painted IL-2  (Read 60560 times)
barneybolac
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« Reply #120 on: December 03, 2014, 02:31:20 PM »

Hi Misos,

I've received some nev images from Vitaliy. I don''t know how much they can add.
The second image is of another pilot and dated 1943.
Skopintsev-VM-Kursy-commander-of-the-Naval-Air-Force-1943





Regards
Massimo

Fantastic.

Looks like inner nacelle on the left has a white line & runs under the wing to fuselage same as the other photo. This cant be a jpeg compression.
No white lines on spinner at all either, this shows that the other photos were doctored.
Upper wing glossy no question.
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #121 on: December 03, 2014, 04:22:30 PM »

Hi Massimo,
very nice photos. They help, at least a bit. That first photo shows that wing leading edge is going up more than on underwings. From the front it looks like whole upper wing is dark.
The second photo shows painting on the engine cowling. Plus star on the nacelle looks single-color. It looks like there were several variations of the painting.

Looks like inner nacelle on the left has a white line & runs under the wing to fuselage same as the other photo. This cant be a jpeg compression.
No white lines on spinner at all either, this shows that the other photos were doctored.
Upper wing glossy no question.
I agree with you.

Here I tried to find some "clean" way how to connect painting on the wing leading edge with the fuselage on the sharp photo - important are only shapes here, not colors -  unfortunately before I saw pictures above, so some white lines are missing and painting on the leading edge does not reaching up on upper wings as on the photos. I made it thinner than in reality.


regards,
   66misos

PS: Many thanks to Vitaliy for provided photos.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 05:56:53 PM by 66misos » Logged

KL
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« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2014, 12:37:48 AM »

My "spasibochki" to Vitaliy, excellent photos.  We finally have a clear view of the spinner.

The most interesting aspect of two new photos is that the engine cowling isn't the darkest object - back of the spinner and 6-point spinner star are visibly darker then the engine cowling.  Contrast between the colour of cowling panels and black panel lines is also significant - on last 2 photos, cowling actually looks red, not dark blue. Back of the spinner and spinner star then could be glossy dark blue.




Leading edge is definitively glossy (we new that before 2 new photos showed up!).  It is still unknown if leading edge is glossy dark blue, glossy red, or some other glossy colour.
Following is glossy red option combined with "carrot red" rectangles:



HTH,
KL
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66misos
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« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2014, 06:53:44 AM »

Hi KL,
the spinner really looks a bit darker on these photos But I am not sure whether there different colors or it it only a matter of light conditions or picture quality or what.
It reminds me this LaGG-3 (same plane, different ocassions or films) where the stars of the same red color look very differently:



and also this one - nose and band on the rear fuselage on the both photos are the same yellow:



I do not know whether (Soviet) WWII film material for photography had the same properties as the film material for movies and whether they gave the same or different bw results.
Regards,
   66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2014, 06:55:21 AM »

Hi all,
Quote
Looks like inner nacelle on the left has a white line & runs under the wing to fuselage same as the other photo. This cant be a jpeg compression.
I'm not convinced of this. The evidence is poor, besides this white line should run under the wing leading edge and continue on the nose. We don't see this.

Quote
Here I tried to find some "clean" way how to connect painting on the wing leading edge with the fuselage on the sharp photo - important are only shapes here, not colors

Again, what is the sense of the grey wingroot? The piece is gloss, this can be seen again on the photo of Skopintsev.
Quote
The most interesting aspect of two new photos is that the engine cowling isn't the darkest object - back of the spinner and 6-point spinner star are visibly darker then the engine cowling.
The blue star doesn't make sense, we have to assume that it was red. I agree that the rear part of the spinner was darker, maybe blue as from the drawings of Montex.
Note the strange thin irregular white line around the spinner. Looks made with a screwdriver, in facts it's wider around the screws.



I've enlarged and darkened the wing leading edges. Here we can see  clearly that the supposed red rectangle and its white outlines continue on the leading edge, and perhaps we can see the back end of the supposed blue leading edge.
At present time my guess is for a red nose with blue spinner ring, tail and leading edges.
Regards
Massimo
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barneybolac
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« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2014, 07:34:39 AM »

Hi all,
Quote
Looks like inner nacelle on the left has a white line & runs under the wing to fuselage same as the other photo. This cant be a jpeg compression.
I'm not convinced of this. The evidence is poor, besides this white line should run under the wing leading edge and continue on the nose. We don't see this.




Based off of this photo I would say your right.
Where did you find that one before the doctoring of the spinner star?
Can we see the original of this picture please?

Also starting to think the bands on the propellers are not paint but tape or ribbon they look 3 dimensional?
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KL
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« Reply #126 on: December 04, 2014, 08:42:00 AM »

Note the strange thin irregular white line around the spinner. Looks made with a screwdriver, in facts it's wider around the screws.



Hi Massimo,

That is called "safety wire" or "lockwire"- all screws on an airplane are secured to prevent them from loosening due to vibration.







and the same wire here:




Wire can be twisted with special pliers (not by screwdriver):



Long time ago I worked as a mechanic; I must have secured hundreds and hundreds of screws this way...

Regards,
KL


 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 08:47:49 AM by KL » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #127 on: December 04, 2014, 09:29:20 AM »

Hi Konstantin,
looks right this; I've seen it on the bolts on the wheels of tanks, but I wouldn't ever think to see around the spinner of a plane.

Hi Rodney,
here is a 1000 dpi version. The original is around 4000 dpi, but an high resolution version of a blurried image gives not advantage.


About the lines on the blades, I think simply that they are badly painted with brush on a white or silver background. Perhaps they fixed a brush to a wire to make circular arcs. The photo seems to confirm that the rear of the spinner is slightly darker than the star, but it's not definitive.

A detail of the painting on the left side. It gives a different impression than what I remember on other photos. Here I see a sunking ship with its deck in evidence.


Regards
Massimo
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barneybolac
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« Reply #128 on: December 04, 2014, 09:57:44 AM »

Hi Rodney,
here is a 1000 dpi version. The original is around 4000 dpi, but an high resolution version of a blurried image gives not advantage.


A detail of the painting on the left side. It gives a different impression than what I remember on other photos. Here I see a sunking ship with its deck in evidence.


Regards
Massimo


Thank you for the pictures.

What is that blob right in the bottom left corner of the aircraft in the second photo?
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #129 on: December 04, 2014, 11:28:15 AM »

I think the pilot's hands. I cropped the image to show this detail.
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barneybolac
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Posts: 334


« Reply #130 on: December 04, 2014, 01:09:30 PM »

I think the pilot's hands. I cropped the image to show this detail.

I think someone has more photos than they are letting us know about? Grin
What a tease if you are. Wink
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66misos
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« Reply #131 on: December 04, 2014, 01:37:29 PM »

Hi,
so we have nice number of photos. Some of them support each other, but unfortunately, some of them are contradictory.
nacelle stars are single-color also on these photos, no Kremlin style.
Spinner 6-point star is not "standard" Soviet 5-point star, so blue (or other than standard red) color could be acceptable.
On the left side photo the engine cowling and especially tail look darker than fuselage star of "standard" red color.
On the front-view photo above:
- the nacelle star (almost surely standard red) looks darker than spinner star,
- bright disc on the nacelle on its bottom part looks darker than light blue on the undersurface, while its top side is very bright,
- horizontal stipes on the leading edge are brighter (red?) than surrounding area (dark blue?).
The darker band (AMT-11?) is clearly visible on some photos, on others not. To be honest, I do not see any aesthetical and functional purpose of it.
Wing upper surfaces are on one retouched low quality photo very bright, on others they look same (shining from low angle) as upper fuselage.
Why should military school unit have so much non-standard pre-war dark blue?
Look at rivets/screws on the spinner tip - it looks metallic glossy.
Do you see any weapons in the wings?
Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 02:16:53 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #132 on: December 04, 2014, 01:49:09 PM »

They are the usual ugly photos already seen, only in higher resolution. I'm not hidding secrets. To be more accurate, photos of photos.

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #133 on: December 04, 2014, 05:15:09 PM »

Hi,
I've received this from Vitaliy, he said that it was written in some memories.



Surprising for the green, isn't it?
I think that there are tw shades of green: the frames were painted with the usual AMT-4, very faded, while the dark and glossy surfaces were made with some mix, maybe A-7 and black.
Regards
Massimo

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KL
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« Reply #134 on: December 04, 2014, 05:37:54 PM »


I've received this from Vitaliy, he said that it was written in some memories.


Whose memoirs? When were those memoirs written?  Without that basic information it's a guess as good as anyone's...

What do memoirs say about wing upper surface and about the wing leading edge?  What about the spinner and its unusual 6 point star?

It would be nice to see a quote from those memoirs and to end this discussion.
Regards,
KL
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 06:30:36 PM by KL » Logged
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