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Author Topic: Elabourately Painted IL-2  (Read 52015 times)
barneybolac
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« Reply #150 on: December 08, 2014, 04:29:21 AM »


Quote
What is interesting is when it was painted in that way.

The answers KL found with regards to Nelsons medals in reply #110, at least prove the Kremlin star & the solid star were both done after Nelson received his 3RD Red Banner.
Question is what version came first?

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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #151 on: December 08, 2014, 08:08:41 AM »

Hi,
Quote
Kremlin star & the solid star were both done after Nelson received his 3RD Red Banner.
Question is what version came first?
It's likely that the plain starlets were updated to Kremlin-style stars.

To tell the truth, I'm reconsidering the possibility that the wings were grey.  The look on the photos give the idea of semigloss, but it can be that matt surfaces have some reflections when seen under a nearly tangent angle. Both Montex instructions and the sketches from Vitaliy show grey uppersurfaces and, although both have some errors, I prefer not to go in conflict without having reasons to do this.

Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 08:28:11 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


WWW
« Reply #152 on: December 08, 2014, 12:01:41 PM »

Massimo,
I preffer same "basic" color for all upper surfaces from the beginning. It is aesthetically cleaner.
Caption under this photo:

says: "Ace of assault strikes Nelson Stepanyan (left) at his "on-the-top-repainted" Il-2".

If undersurfaces were standard "light" AII Light Blue, then upper surfaces should be something darker - either darker light blue AMT-7, or even darker blue-grey AMT-11. But if undersurfaces were AMT-7, then something darker for upper surfaces, e.g. blue-grey AMT-11 could be that "grey" color mentioned by Vitaly; in this case AMT-7 also for upper surfaces is not the option.


The tail same as fin (horizontal stabilizer) are significantly darker than cockpit. If they all are green, then cockpit framing could be some lighter green, e.g. standard AMT-4, while the tail, fin and canopy railing should be some darker green - same dark green as on the wheel discs?



Regards,
   66misos
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 02:37:55 PM by 66misos » Logged

Graham Boak
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« Reply #153 on: December 08, 2014, 04:04:10 PM »

Excuse me for suggesting something that seems so obvious that you may have overlooked it, but if you are assuming an blue-grey AMT-11 airframe, then isn't the darker colour more likely to be AMT-12 rather than any green?
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KL
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« Reply #154 on: December 08, 2014, 05:25:05 PM »

Excuse me for suggesting something that seems so obvious that you may have overlooked it, but if you are assuming an blue-grey AMT-11 airframe, then isn't the darker colour more likely to be AMT-12 rather than any green?

No, because the darker colour is clearly glossy and AMT-12 is matt.

If undersurfaces were standard "light" AII Light Blue, then upper surfaces should be something darker - either darker light blue AMT-7, or even darker blue-grey AMT-11. But if undersurfaces were AMT-7, then something darker for upper surfaces, e.g. blue-grey AMT-11 could be that "grey" color mentioned by Vitaly; in this case AMT-7 also for upper surfaces is not the option.



Blue-gray AMT-11 is the only option for Vitaliy's option.  The only problem is that on all photos fuselage looks much lighter than AMT-11.

The tail same as fin (horizontal stabilizer) are significantly darker than cockpit. If they all are green, then cockpit framing could be some lighter green, e.g. standard AMT-4, while the tail, fin and canopy railing should be some darker green - same dark green as on the wheel discs?

If canopy is olive green AMT-4, then the wing root band has to be AMT-4 too.
Dark gren A-15f (colour of the wheels) is a realistic option for tail, neceles, wing leading edge and canopy railings.

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 05:51:43 PM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #155 on: December 08, 2014, 05:32:33 PM »

Quote
With no names and dates, information is interesting, but not much more than roumors.  Fact that it is second hand (from a friend), doesn't help either; that friend could be Stankov...
Vitaliy is very well documented; if he trusts this friend, it's enough for me.

Good for you!  The case is closed!!! 

Regards,
KL
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barneybolac
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« Reply #156 on: December 08, 2014, 07:51:41 PM »

So what is the pattern of the top of the wing & the transition to front leading edge around the green nacelles look like?
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KL
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« Reply #157 on: December 08, 2014, 08:06:48 PM »

So what is the pattern of the top of the wing & the transition to front leading edge around the green nacelles look like?

IMHO, top of the wing is silver "serebryanka" or white.  Wing leading edge is glossy dark green (or glossy red).
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #158 on: December 08, 2014, 08:14:13 PM »

Hi,
the colorized photo from the left side should show some dark green on the leading edge. The image seems to show where the green trim ends.
Some images seem to show the contour over the nacelles, that seems slightly curved to follow the profile of them. If I don't miss, it's visible on one of the colorized photos.
Imho, the options for the wingroots are dark green or red.
Note that the image of the sanking ship on this side doesn't resemble well to the closer image, where the deck of the ship is well evident.
For what I know, A-15m is of postwar use, and not bright. The bright shade utilized on the wheels of many postwar planes is called DM green and appears on the alboom nakrasok in 1946.

A note from Vitaliy (in Russian, here is an automatic translation)

Quote
Звание мл. лейтенант В.М.Скопинцеву было присвоено в апреле 1943 г. на Курсах командиров звеньев ВВС ВМФ (3-е Военно-морское авиационное училище ВВС ВМФ), в полк он был зачислен в октябре 1943 г., звание лейтенант присвоили в марте 1944 г.

на фотографии он в звании мл.лейтенант.

Rank ml. Lieutenant V.M.Skopintsev was awarded in April 1943 for a course commander of the Naval Air Force (3rd Naval Aviation School of Naval Air Force), the regiment he was enlisted in October 1943, was given the rank of lieutenant in March 1944 .
the photograph he ml.leytenant rank.

So, the photo of this pilot is taken before March 1944.

Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #159 on: December 08, 2014, 08:44:48 PM »

на фотографии он в звании мл.лейтенант.
...
So, the photo of this pilot is taken before March 1944.

No, you are not reading correctly...  Photo was taken between April 1943 and October 1943

I have found something similar at http://46шап.рф/north/pilots/

Quote
В 1942 году направлен во 2-ю школу пилотов ВМФ, где окончил курсы командиров звеньев. Как раз в это время там преподавал прославленный летчик-штурмовик Герой Советского Союза Нельсон Георгиевич Степанян. В октябре 1943 года в звании младшего лейтенанта прибыл в 46 ШАП ВВС СФ для дальнейшего прохождения службы.

In 1942 sent to the 2nd Navy pilots school, where he graduated Courses for Section Commanders. At that time courses were taught by the famous ground-attack pilot, Hero of the Soviet Union Nelson Stepanyan. In October 1943, with the rank of junior lieutenant he arrived in 46 ShAP VVS SF for further service.



In November 1943, as a 46 shap pilot, Skopintsev was shot down and he managed to land his Il-2 on the frozen Krivoe lake near Murmansk.  His Il-2 was recovered few years ago



HTH,
KL



« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 03:37:04 AM by KL » Logged
barneybolac
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Posts: 320


« Reply #160 on: December 09, 2014, 06:12:03 AM »

So what is the pattern of the top of the wing & the transition to front leading edge around the green nacelles look like?

IMHO, top of the wing is silver "serebryanka" or white.  Wing leading edge is glossy dark green (or glossy red).

Colours  is not my concern  its about the layout of the dark green leading edge where it meets the lighter colour of the top of the wing.

For example the UTI I-16 shown earlier in this thread.
Is there a design/pattern that we still cant see with all the views we have?

Hi,
the colorized photo from the left side should show some dark green on the leading edge. The image seems to show where the green trim ends.
Some images seem to show the contour over the nacelles, that seems slightly curved to follow the profile of them. If I don't miss, it's visible on one of the colorized photos.

I'm afraid I can't see what you mean in this instance as to where the green finishes on top of the wing.
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #161 on: December 09, 2014, 06:49:44 AM »

Hi,
little update:

- red part in front of cockpit corrected,
- band bellow the cockpit changed to green AMT-4,
- part of the white disc and red star added to the nacelle,
- dark green added to wing leading edge.

That yellow part on the wing is ALG-1 primer?


Regards,
   66misos
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KL
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« Reply #162 on: December 09, 2014, 08:51:49 PM »

Colours  is not my concern  its about the layout of the dark green leading edge where it meets the lighter colour of the top of the wing.

For example the UTI I-16 shown earlier in this thread.
Is there a design/pattern that we still cant see with all the views we have?

Can you see a pattern in elements that are visible?







I would say it's a similar style, but no patterns...
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #163 on: December 09, 2014, 10:03:16 PM »

Quote
I'm afraid I can't see what you mean in this instance as to where the green finishes on top of the wing.
Misos has colorized it just as I see it.
Just, I think that the wing root could be of the darker green because I see it gloss.
Quote
No, you are not reading correctly...  Photo was taken between April 1943 and October 1943
I see. More likely around October, if the grey is really AMT-11.
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #164 on: December 09, 2014, 10:16:05 PM »


Quote
No, you are not reading correctly...  Photo was taken between April 1943 and October 1943
I see. More likely around October, if the grey is really AMT-11.

According to other sources about the school and courses, Stepanyan's Il-2 could have been repainted anytime between May and September 1943.  This period of time practically excludes 1943 NKAP colours:
- blue-gray AMT-11
- dark gray AMT-12
- light brown AMT-1


You should consider something else for fuselage instead of blue-gray AMT-11.  I still believe light blue AMT-7 is a valid option.  Smiley

HTH,
KL
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 10:25:12 PM by KL » Logged
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