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Author Topic: Elabourately Painted IL-2  (Read 52104 times)
66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #180 on: December 12, 2014, 06:06:11 PM »

Hi,
I received some answers from Vitaly at airforce.ru forum:
- he is confused by (spinner) green star. If they had enough red paint to paint half of the plane, there is no logic to paint spinner star green. IMHO same can be applied for dark band around the spinner.
- green is confirmed. Those guys (from interview) did not mentioned any blue color (instead of green),
- canopy and the tail is the same color on the photo, e.g. same green.
Regards
      66misos
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 06:11:55 PM by 66misos » Logged

Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #181 on: December 12, 2014, 06:46:46 PM »

Hi Misos,
Quote
- he is confused by (spinner) green star. If they had enough red paint to paint half of the plane, there is no logic to paint spinner star green. IMHO same can be applied for dark band around the spinner.
- green is confirmed. Those guys (from interview) did not mentioned any blue color (instead of green),
- canopy and the tail is the same color on the photo, e.g. same green.
I can believe that the canopy and the tail are both green, but certainly not the same green. I think that 'the same green' is an interpretation, not a positive information of the interview (it would discard it).
About the green star, I think that it would be good if one fights for the free use of cannabis indica, but not for the communism.
I don't know about the rear part of the spinner and for the area over the nose. Red or green?
Regards
Massimo
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KL
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« Reply #182 on: December 12, 2014, 07:32:02 PM »

The discussion at AIF is quite telling:
Quote


Tora (Vitaliy Timoshenko): A question: does anybody know who drew this picture?



Owl-99 (Mihail Bykov): I drew it in early 1990s for the "Krilya Rodini" ("Wings of the Motherland") magazine ...  Smiley
from photos of very bad quality.

Tora: Clear, I thought that the drawing was based on the memories of veterans.

Owl-99: There was a couple photos - side view and a front view, very small and blurry printouts.


The stress is on the fact that Vitaliy only thought that the drawing was based on memoirs....  we still haven't got basic information about the veterans and their supposed description of Stepanyan's Il-2:  what was mechanic's name, who was the interviewer, when were Mazurenko and the mechanic interviewed? Huh

Did interviewer show Mazurenko and the mechanic Krilya Rodini drawing during the interview?


KL
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:36:45 PM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #183 on: December 12, 2014, 07:55:47 PM »


About the green star, I think that it would be good if one fights for the free use of cannabis indica, but not for the communism.
I don't know about the rear part of the spinner and for the area over the nose. Red or green?

Yes, I have to admit that green star doesn't look good.  It isn't decorative, no meaning (cannabis wasn't an issue), etc.  Dark blue star looked somewhat better, but red star definitively looks the best.  So, back to the red decorative 6-point star (no relationship to 5-point comunist red star)...  especially since Massimo produced an example of another 6-point red star!

But, the rear part of the spinner has to be darker colour than engine cowling!  Only darker colour on this plane was supposed glossy dark green (same colour as tail).
Darker (and very glossy!) rear part of the spinner is clearly visible on this photo:



regards,
KL  
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 08:03:22 PM by KL » Logged
KL
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« Reply #184 on: December 12, 2014, 10:15:55 PM »


I received some answers from Vitaly at airforce.ru forum:
...

Hi Misos,
There is no new information on that discussion at the AIF.

If you search AIF archive you will find my question regarding Stepanyan's and Pokrovski's planes; the question was posted a couple of years ago by SK (Sergey Kuznitsov) but he mentions a "foreign colleague" (that would be me...).  So, I was the first who suggested that both planes belonged to a school because both Stepanyan and Pokrovski were instructors in same course in 1943.

In future, anybody who mentions how Stepanyan's and Pokrovski's planes were trainers and how planes were repainted in 1943, should also mention my name as a source.

I have now much more information about the chronology, school etc. but I don't think forum is the best place to post it.  If Massimo creates a page about Stepanyan and this plane, I could write this info, but the text has to go under my name.

Regards,
KL
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #185 on: December 13, 2014, 06:47:27 AM »

Hi,
Quote
In future, anybody who mentions how Stepanyan's and Pokrovski's planes were trainers and how planes were repainted in 1943, should also mention my name as a source.
If 'trainer' means that the plane of Stepanyan had double commands, I have many doubts, unless proven, because UIL-2 already existed in 1943 and had a different canopy.
The fact that it was painted in 1943 is quite obvious, because that type was produced in the first half of 1943 (starting from November 1942) and one of the photos where it appears is dated 1943.
I have not problems to credit all sources of informations I use. Only, I don't understand this will to be the owner of an information, when it has to come from sources that usually are already available on the net.
Did you credit me for the photos received from Vitaliy that I've posted? No, not even a thanks! Should I have your same attitude, I could have kept them for myself.
Or I could pretend to be quoted as an author by anyone says that the fillet on the wings was glossy emerald green. 
Of course, this isn't my attitude, because the forum is for free discussion and to share informations and images.

Regards
Massimo
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Graham Boak
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« Reply #186 on: December 13, 2014, 03:44:36 PM »

I don't see any reason to doubt that standard aircraft were in use in the schools.  It does rather depend upon just what is meant by "schools", but UIl2s could be expected in aircraft conversion training units and standard combat aircraft in operational training units.  There could well have been some overlap, depending upon availability.  Perhaps someone could write a small thesis on Soviet practice as it changed from prewar, through wartime, to the immediate postwar years?  I would expect considerable changes during this time.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #187 on: December 13, 2014, 06:06:59 PM »

Quote
The discussion at AIF is quite telling:
Quote


Tora (Vitaliy Timoshenko): A question: does anybody know who drew this picture?



Quote
Owl-99 (Mihail Bykov): I drew it in early 1990s for the "Krilya Rodini" ("Wings of the Motherland") magazine ...  Smiley
from photos of very bad quality.

Tora: Clear, I thought that the drawing was based on the memories of veterans.

Owl-99: There was a couple photos - side view and a front view, very small and blurry printouts.


The stress is on the fact that Vitaliy only thought that the drawing was based on memoirs....  



Am I wrong, or they are speaking about the old drawing of Bykov?  What has this to do with the description that Vitaliy sent to me and I've posted?
The old drawing of Bykov shows a plane with green uppersurfaces and a petrol blue tail. It hasn't certainly inspired his reconstruction with grey uppersurfaces and green canopy and tail.
Anyway, Vitaliy wrote that he is researching for the name of the mechanic.


Regards
Massimo
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 06:20:16 AM by Massimo Tessitori » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #188 on: December 14, 2014, 09:16:51 AM »

Hi,
for now, I've made this profile.

What do you think of it?
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #189 on: December 14, 2014, 10:00:23 AM »

Massimo,
Nice picture. IMHO white line between red and green follows panel line. Also, IMHO, green under the horizontal stabiliser should cover all plate, not going up like on your picture.
I am not sure about canopy railing, may be to make it a bit dirty to distinguish the darker color.
Regards,
  66misos
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #190 on: December 14, 2014, 01:01:25 PM »

Hi Misos,
about the white line, I am pretty sure that it is lower than the fillet upper line, at least on the rear part. I can check the front part.
About the green on the tail, I think that the stabilizers have only their front painted green, unlike the fin. Unfortunately I can't see well under the stabilizers, but, should I be the painter, I would avoid to go on the ground to paint a decoration.
Regards
Massimo
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66misos
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Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


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« Reply #191 on: December 14, 2014, 05:27:06 PM »

Hi Massimo,
of course, I meant only front part of the white line, on the engine cover, I was not specific enough:



IMHO whole horizontal stabilizer was painted dark green:

May be there were also grey stripes on the moving part like on the rudder. Grey would be much brighter, something like the top of fuselage.
Plus that tiny part on the top of tail (I do know English word) together with the top of the tail seems to be also dark green.

Dark green on the side of the nacelle under the wing goes further to back, behind wheel doors.

And as I already wrote, may be it would be good to make the canopy railing a bit dirty (if not dark green) to distinguish its darker color.

I am not sure about dark band around the spinner. On some photos it seems to be darker than engine cover, on others seems to be the same color. I think red color would make whole front part of the plane visually cleaner. But it is only my guess.


Btw, look at this photo - that engine cover/protection with the cord looks like inspiration for painting on Stepanyan's plane Smiley


Regards,
    66misos
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barneybolac
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« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2014, 06:17:54 AM »

Hi,
for now, I've made this profile.

What do you think of it?
Regards
Massimo

I would say you have the most accurate profile of this IL-2 too date.

Well done.
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #193 on: December 15, 2014, 06:46:16 AM »

Hi,
Quote
of course, I meant only front part of the white line, on the engine cover, I was not specific enough:
you're right, I've modified the drawing.
Quote
IMHO whole horizontal stabilizer was painted dark green:
I see a light part (reflectionof the sky), a dark part (green reflecting the fin) and a light part that is too forward to be a reflection of the grey part of the stabilizer; I think that it's a grey surface. I can check again the starting and ending point.
I can't say if there are green stripes here too. Perhaps the stabilizers resemble more to the wings that to the fin.
Again, photo doesn't help to see where the dark green ends under the stabilizer. I have supposed that it was a difficult part to paint, so they left as it was.
Quote
Dark green on the side of the nacelle under the wing goes further to back, behind wheel doors.
somewhat longer, up to the center of the retracted wheen, i think to see... but the light rectangle over it is a rocket rail or the side of the nacelle?
Quote
Btw, look at this photo - that engine cover/protection with the cord looks like inspiration for painting on Stepanyan's plane
Yes, it resembles a lot.
Quote
I would say you have the most accurate profile of this IL-2 too date.
I hope so... it was discossed so long, and is requiring a lot of work.
Regards
Massimo
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #194 on: December 15, 2014, 06:54:40 AM »

Hi,
some notes from Vitaliy:
Quote
Да, именно этот рисунок (внизу) сделал Михаил Быков, он и на ВИФе это подтвердил что рисовал его с плохих фотографий.
KL - видимо решил что я брал за основу рисунок Быкова, но это не так, тот рисунок что я вам высылал нарисован со слов Мазуренко и техника Степаняна. Да, и небольшое уточнение: со слов Мазуренко, он видел этот самолет в 1944 г

an automatic translation (adapted):
Quote
Yes, this is the picture (below) done by Mikhail Bykov, he and Wife acknowledged that drew it from bad photos.
KL - apparently decided that I took as a basis for drawing the one of Bykov, but it is not, the picture that I sent to you painted with the words of Mazurenko and the mechanic of  Stepanian. Oh, and a small clarification: the words of Mazurenko, he saw the plane in 1944.

Regards
Massimo
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