Sovietwarplanes

One of my favourite sites, which has apparently disappeared, was avia-n-aero. It had upwards of 4000 photo images of Russian aircraft on it, a lot of them Operation Barbarossa shots, taken from ebay.de. I thought I'd give this a try myself, and you can too!

(1) Go to the German e-bay site: http://www.ebay.de/
(2) Choose the category "Sammeln & Seltenes" in the drop-down menu of the right-hand field of the "Finden" bar; I used "foto" and "Russ" as key words in the left field of the bar. Click on "Finden". Someone who actually speaks German (I don't!) might be able to refine this process better than I can, with suggestions of where else to search.
(3) Scroll through the search results and look for descriptions including familiar names, like "MiG-3", then open that page.
(4) Be sure to click on the low-res thumbnail to get the high-res image.
(5) Right-click the high-resolution image and save it to your "My Pictures" folder

We can all become amateur VVS photo researchers, digging in the goldmine of ebay.de! ;) Today I found a Yak-9T image and three MiG-3 images which I saved, plus several others (I-153, SB, TB-3, Po-2, etc.) which I didn't.

If anyone has suggestions on how to improve this process, or finds anything really amazing, please let the rest of us know!

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for the suggestion. Ebay.de is a real mine.
When you find an interesting image, could you post the link here, please?
Massimo

Hi, :) here are some images

http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jak-9-5-20_W0QQitemZ280140706889QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
This looks Yugoslav. A Yak-1 on the background.
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jak-9-Cockpit-5-26_W0QQitemZ280141305850QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-MiG-3-5-25_W0QQitemZ280141305913QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Massimo

 :D Thanks, Massimo! I just see red X's in your second post, though!

My instructions were unnecessarily complicated - you don't have to go to "Sammeln & Seltenes", you can just use the default option "Alle Kategorien" in the right-hand field of the "Finden" bar. This is easier than what I described before, and searches all of the listings, even though 99% of the photos seem to be in the "Sammeln & Seltenes" subcategory, from what I've seen so far.

John

Arrgh - another revision - if you enter "foto" and "Flugzeug" in the left field of the "Finden" bar, you get *all* the photos of aircraft. This means you have about eight times as many to sort through, but some of the photos are not identified as "Russ". Here's an interesting collection of I-153s that I found this way:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-zerstoertes-Flugzeug-crashed-airplane-BB332_W0QQitemZ290149243469QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

(I'm sure there are those among us who may also be interested in German aircraft - this search will get you tons of Luftwaffe images. Gee, what a surprise...  ;))

John

Hi John, :)
about crosses, it was my error. I linked the pages as they were images. Now I've modified the link and it functions.
About ebay: it seems that they insert forthemost small size images.
By the way, I've already seen those images of MiG-3, many of them are on my book too. I wonder if the owner is selling them, or if there is more than a print on the market.
Massimo

 :) Thanks again, Massimo! The emblem under the cockpit ledge in the "Jak-9-cockpit" image is interesting - I wonder what, if anything, it means.

Regarding image size, I found that the image closer to the top of these pages seems to be in lower resolution than the slightly larger second image, farther down the page. The second image is the one to save, so that it can be enlarged with whatever software you have, in order to see details more clearly. The first image becomes quite broken up (or pixellated) if it is enlarged with image editing software.

I suspect there are numerous prints of these photos in circulation; as a regular contributor on Air Warfare Forum, you've probably seen this before, and as an author, you are probably an expert on the subject of copyrights, but the following discussion might be of interest:
http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2780

(It must be obvious now why I don't finish any models...  ;) )

John

Hi John,  :)
the discussion on Airwarfareforum is interesting. I didn't know it.
The copyright problem is somewhat strange where more than one print exists, or when the print passes on many hands. The definitive copyright should be of the owner of the negative.
However, when an image has already been published by many different sources, it can be considered of public domain.
Massimo

Well, surprise surprise - it's back!  :D
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php

John

Russian bombers -
Il-4:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-72740_W0QQitemZ180149294820QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SB:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Bomber_W0QQitemZ220140205834QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

A couple of I-153's:
http://cgi.ebay.de/019-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170140473075QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

SB:
http://cgi.ebay.de/J9-Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-Beute-2-WK_W0QQitemZ270157869614QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-I-16-5-53_W0QQitemZ280145929253QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

La-5F - "White 85" - has white tip on fin and rudder. Needs a bit of manipulation to bring out the details - it's a rather poor photo:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Russischer-Rata-Jaeger_W0QQitemZ300144571740QQihZ020QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

La-7 "mit raketenmotor":
http://cgi.ebay.de/La-7-mit-Raketenmotor-Flugzeug-Foto_W0QQitemZ270159564773QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

I-153 with unusual camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/WW2-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-airplane-Naehmaschine-top-Tarnung_W0QQitemZ260163264806QQihZ016QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Nice image! Thank you for sharing it.
Massimo

Captured Yak-1b (not Me-109, as captioned) in German markings, with Russian inscription remaining on fuselage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-ME-109-BF-Kennung-russische-Schrift-Tarn_W0QQitemZ130160119739QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi, :)
beautiful image indeed. Could anyone try to translate the inscription?
Massimo

Yes, it is a nice shot - too bad this beautiful Yak has been disgraced with fascist markings!  :(

John

Hi,
yes, in particularly, pity that no trace of the original number is visible. The repainted stars can be detected, but not the number. However, some black, white and yellow can add interest to an unusual profile.
Massimo

Interesting photo of captured MiG-3 being loaded onto (off of? Or just admired on?) a barge:
http://cgi.ebay.de/1-Org-Foto-Flugzeug-001_W0QQitemZ300160828691QQihZ020QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Possibly useful shot of wrecked Bloch 175 (thanks, ChristianK), trying to look like a wrecked Il-4:
http://cgi.ebay.de/1-Org-Foto-Flugzeug-005_W0QQitemZ300160830699QQihZ020QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

For some reason, I found this photo of a damaged I-16 sadly appealing:
http://cgi.ebay.de/FOTO-FLUGZEUG-RUSSLAND-Einsitzer-Nummer-6_W0QQitemZ280161867123QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

That Il-4 is actually a french Bloch 175, but nevertheless-thanks for sharing!

Oops - duh! I thought the glazing on the upper nose looked wrong and the cowlings looked a bit too tapered (both points as compared to photos of *real* Il-4's), but I also thought it might be a different version of this aircraft. Thanks for the correction - I modified my post accordingly!  :D

John

Another wrecked I-16, getting a close look-over:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Russische-I-16-RATA-abgeschossen_W0QQitemZ170158574171QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

John,

this time it is a short nosed and folded P-51! By the way, nice alteration + explanation for the Bloch ;D 

A photo i didn't knew when i found it. Maybe it's new to someone else, too:

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=2e3147f97faa8eb601f576c68ca0f0d4)

Source: Armes Militaria, Hors-Serie No. 9: Bataille pour Moscou

Hi, :)
this is new for me too. Thank you for sharing it.
Massimo

The avia-n-aero site has been updated with 5 or 6 new pages of VVS GPW photos - here's one which includes an I-16 with unusual markings on the fin:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=9&parent_id=0&photo_id=5533&countdisplay=&start=120

Here's another I-16, with a swastika imposed on the red star, although the small size suggests it's not actually painted on:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=20&parent_id=0&photo_id=5551&countdisplay=&start=120

Unusual camouflage on this Il-4:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=21&parent_id=0&photo_id=5576&countdisplay=&start=80

An SB, in full German markings:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=27&parent_id=0&photo_id=5649&countdisplay=&start=0

Some Yaks (5 total) right at the top of the first page; poor focus, I'm afraid:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=&parent_id=0&start=0

John

Hi,
What would be the coloring for this SB-2M-103:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=27&parent_id=0&photo_id=5643&countdisplay=&start=0
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=27&parent_id=0&photo_id=5637&countdisplay=&start=0
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=27&parent_id=0&photo_id=5635&countdisplay=&start=0

Looks like light grey with possible light blue underside?
EDIT: or are the colors so faded that its in fact regular green-blue?

This Yak is nice...
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=31&parent_id=0&photo_id=5614&countdisplay=&start=40

Are you sure? (I know, I have a reputation for thinking *everything* is an Il-4, even a Bloch 175...) I looked pretty hard at that photo because I thought the same thing at first, and I think it only *looks* like a DB-3 because the extended nose glazing is missing. The aerial mast location, etc., seems to correspond to the Il-4.

John

I believe that DGM is correct on this one. I have few pics and several color profiles of DB-3 (especially of DB-3T) with that mast, often accompanied by a directional antenae (in teardrop shaped housing). Also, arrangement of windows on the side of the nose is more consistent with DB-3, and I believe that a small protruding on the nose (if you follow the shape of the nose, from pilots canopy, then downwards, visible just over the engine cowling) is that big bracket that separates gun glassing from lower observation window.

This pic is quite interesting. Looks like there was some sort of cammo below the "spray snakes" or it was added to it. Like they were trying to repaint it, and then ran out of time so they spayed the rest in hurry?

Cheers

Here's a good one - appears to be a Yak-1 (Yak-1b?) with white tail stripe and yellow (?) numeral "14" clearly visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Abgestuerztes-feindliches-Flugzeug-2-WK_W0QQitemZ160173950544QQihZ006QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Hi, :)
this is really good!
Massimo

Well, anything is possible, I suppose, and I'm not being defensive here, but I have some trouble accepting that the green can be judged on the basis of a black-and-white photo so well that it can be considered a repaint job with German paint. My guess was that it was a more-or-less normal AII or AMT black/green combination, possibly with some repainting of the fin after a repair. And if the Germans had repainted it (for what reason?), surely they would have obliterated the red star which is still visible on the fin/rudder? The fabric in the area where the fuselage star would have been located appears to have been peeled away by a souvenir hunter. I have to admit, the logic behind the original "meine doodle" concept escaped me.

John

I-152 with spatted undercarriage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Doppeldecker-mir-unbekannt_W0QQitemZ220166174839QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

just in case you do not know what I am talking about here is the link :

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Various/Markings/Doodle/part1.php

Thanks, DGM - it was this article I was referring to when I commented about the logic behind the concept, not your remarks, just to keep the record straight - I understand that Erik seems to have a basis for what he's saying, I just don't understand why the Germans would have done that. Too much time (and paint) on their hands? It doesn't seem logical, but stranger things have happened. A Hindu friend of mine once told me that Hitler sent a technical delegation to India during the war to study the Hindu deity Siva, who has the power (in legend) to create huge explosions, so who knows what might have driven the Wehrmacht to repaint destroyed aircraft!  ;)

John

Il-2 with unusual camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Stormovik-mit-Tarnbemalung_W0QQitemZ220165315137QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Another Il-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-JAK-Jaeger_W0QQitemZ220163937674QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nice shot of SB 2M-103 (NOT a Martin bomber, or even an Il-4):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Martin-Bomber-russ-Kennung_W0QQitemZ220163946240QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Po-2 with very silvery-looking *Ilyushin* in the background:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Doppeldecker-und-Bomber-TOP_W0QQitemZ220164657279QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
excellent photos indeed, the first one in particular.

I've read the linked page. I didn't know it.
About the faked camouflages: at the start of the war the Soviets were full of silver and light grey planes, or, when things were good, with plain green uppersurface and red stars over the wings.
Stalin denied the authorization to camouflage planes and airports to prevent that it was interpreted as a provocation by Germans, in facts he tried to gain time before the war outbreak.
So, at the beginning of the war, when the air bases were attacked, each unit had to arrange to hide planes.
It is wrong to think that strange spotted camouflages required a long study and meditation in so hot days: each technician took a brush, the paint he found and started to dirten the immaculate surfaces. Besides, this required much less paint than a complete repainting of a silver plane.
No marvel that the results were strange: maybe, in the hurry, two men with different colors and ideas worked on the same plane on opposite sides.
There are many photos of strange camoflages on planes still in Soviet hands (I can link some), and, by sure, they didn't asked to Germans to paint them.
Unusual camouflages are rarer on later planes, as Yaks and Lavochkins, simply because they came out already camouflaged
from the factories.
About the famous MiG-3 n.9: on its fuselage and tail we see light rectangles due to peeling off the layer of fabric by souvenir hunters (the underlying color should be yellow putty). Two photos of this plane are known, and it's possible that it was turned on its nose for scenic effects. But, repainted? And why should they repaint it for a marvellous photo, and then to peel down its skin before the photo itself was shot?
Massimo

Hi John,
Thanks for spotting this pics of great quality :)
I like the SB 2M-103 pic the most - one of the best I ever seen. Question here: looks like light gray overall?
The one with silver IL-4 in background is also great.

Oh, DGM, not much of a expert, just had few pics similar to above, but of poorer quality. You can see the layout of side windows on this one. As for DB-3 with antennas, here you can find several examples:
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/db3.html
And here is a DB-3 from almost the same angle:
http://www.airpages.ru/cgi-bin/pg2.pl?page=imgildb-3m
I like both DB-3 and IL-4. The first one looks like those designs of civil cars from 30's, just missing two headlights and a bumper ;)

Nice reasearch guys, many thanks!
Cheers!

PS - punch "ДБ-3" and/or "Дальний бомбардировщик" in google for russian pages
Further tech details (in russian, but useful drawings) http://www.eroplan.boom.ru/planes/db-3/db-3-1.htm
at bottom you have links for other pages [ДБ-3/Ил-4, ч.2.] [ДБ-3/Ил-4, ч.3.] (part 2, part 3)

Hi Massimo! You gave a very interesting and logical explanation for those odd camouflage schemes - thanks very much!  :)


Thanks for the kind words, Renato - yes, the DB-3 does have a very "retro" look to it, doesn't it!
I enjoy looking for these old photos, although time spent at the keyboard takes away from time spent at the workbench!  ;)

One thing I am *still* hunting for - I *know* I've seen a photo of Mikhail Grib's late-war Yak-9U with the same "White 22" markings as his well-known Yak-9D, but it still escapes me. I've tried numerous Internet searches amd looked through all of my books, but I have not found it. I have found a few profiles and some "skins", but no photo yet.

Cheers!
John

Nice photo of Yak UT-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Rata-Top_W0QQitemZ220165382095QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Doppeldecker-Kennung_W0QQitemZ220165384199QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Crashed Yak:
http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-AK-abgeschossenes-Flugzeug-WK-2_W0QQitemZ290177890488QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's that strange Il-2 again, in a different photo:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russ-Stormovik-Tarnbemalung-Bruchlandung_W0QQitemZ220167464250QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi, :)
truly beautiful photos. The one of Il-2 is under the rain.
what plane is this? I suppose some Il-4 or similar type.
http://fotosoyuz.ru/en/catalog/picture/&png=418864&cntvat_pheCntr=5&vqFrnepu=1438022370&cntvat_fgneg=0?picid=fs-YSTINOV-02/09/Ust-0820.jpg&cat=418864&search=

Massimo

Hi,

Does anybody know what color might wore Yak on the attached picture?

Thanks,
Libor

(http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r68/Modeland/jak9.jpg)

I had 5 photos from same place, i think:

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=181&parent_id=21

I suppose white and light blue with red numbers.
Scarcey coherent with the background... perhaps the white paint wasn't too easy to wash off.
Thank you for sharing it.
Massimo

Hi! Welcome to the forum! Your web site is *excellent*, and it was what caused me to start this thread. Thank you very much! Are any similar photos available on the Russian version of Ebay?

John

By saving the photo and adjusting the brightness a little, it becomes visible that the undersides are painted a slightly darker colour, so it seems that Massimo is correct (as usual!? ;) )

Something I keep forgetting to mention:
(1) There are other VVS images on ebay.de - I only link the ones which I think are useful because of their quality. The other photos may be interesting to other people, so I suggest that anyone else might want to look there too. I just insert the words "foto" and "flugzeug" in the ebay.de search bar (without quotation marks), then hit enter.
(2) There are LOTS of non-VVS photos there - those who are interested in Luftwaffe and Spanish Civil War (Nationalist) aircraft will find plenty to look at. Last night, for example, I found a series of 4 very clear photos of what I believe is an Italian Breda fighter in SCW markings.

John

A new (?) image of a familiar MiG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russische-Jagdmaschine-Flugzeug-mit-Kennung_W0QQitemZ160177648793QQihZ006QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Nice pic!
It is Pe-8. You can tell from the canopy frame, and a small clue is "The navigator-captain A.M.Lebedev" - it means there is also a pilot on this plane, as well :)
Here are some nice pics of a great kit by Alex Ruchkovsky:
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelGallery/pe8.php

Cheers!

PS - I've just found the pic of pilot:
http://fotosoyuz.ru/en/catalog/picture/&png=418864&cntvat_pheCntr=8&vqFrnepu=753403943&cntvat_fgneg=0?picid=fs-khaldey-01/03/Kh-044.jpg&cat=418864&search=

GREAT PAGES!!!

Thank you Renato, it was not easy! :)

The model of AR is a marvel.  :o
Just, think how one can feel when a new kit of the subject is released...

Massimo

Hi Gents,

some 2500 photos for you to browse through:

http://news.webshots.com/album/550833578RUsEmU?start=0

It's especially interesting for armor fans, but the album has some VVS airplanes too. I just made it through the first 500 pictures, so if someone else discovers a real oddity, feel free to reply here   ::)

 :o ChristianK, another great collection!
I could not resist not to take a look despite I'm overwhelmed with work. I managed up to page 80. As collection mainly depicts scenes from a life (and death) of infantry, here is what I was able to find on subject of Soviet aircraft:
(I beleive that most of the tail section that could be seen on some of the pics belong to IL-4)

LaGG-3
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2986423990089413999dfWjWA
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2997252200089413999KanuPA

I-153
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2308640950089413999gUerZL
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2516121080089413999aqHNaQ
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2606208550089413999xuCVFL
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2923119320089413999fxieLA

I-16
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2405556440089413999VaMfYw
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2045595580089413999QqBtVb

I-16 UTI
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2967229120089413999iAPLvl
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2936340200089413999CzQAXj

IL-4
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2921544970089413999CRaCHg
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2679831130089413999GrhbgD
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2465579890089413999OeExYF

Yak's
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2417667930089413999YFcqHJ
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2409401580089413999GiUReb

MiG-3
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2492306860089413999wmdPTV
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2072801740089413999WuKIeA

TB-3
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2908045200089413999QwyfSm
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2012209290089413999luXHWX

IL-2
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2518027240089413999YQwQZA
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2754710290089413999VBpyhA

SB-2M-105
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2513375770089413999ZtasEs
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2432429430089413999QaAbfc
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2800957740089413999IzUSNE

SB-2M-100
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2836756850089413999zqlnmK

PS- sorry for generalizing "Yak's", they are not really my field? :P

Hi Renato, :)
thank you for marking the exact links.
The Yaks are a yak-1 (the downed one) and a Yak-1b.
Massimo

The Yak-1b photo also appears (and is discussed) in the following AWF thread, with some additional photos and a discussion of the inscription on the opposite side of the fuselage:
http://www.airwarfareforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=6082

John

Hi John, :)
that's true. Pity that the slogan is not fully readable. Some characters of the first word are readable on the photo below in that topic. Perhaps some further attempt can  still be done.
Massimo

Three very clear (but familiar-looking?) LaGG-3 images - "Red 27", winter camouflage:

http://cgi.ebay.de/WK-2-Foto-abgestuerzt-russ-Flugzeug-und-Fi-156-030-2_W0QQitemZ130183465029QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/WK-2-Foto-abgestuerzt-russ-Flugzeug-und-Fi-156-030-3_W0QQitemZ130183465049QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.de/WK-2-Foto-abgestuerzt-russ-Flugzeug-und-Fi-156-030-4_W0QQitemZ130183465075QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
the plane looks familiar to me too, but the photos are new. The Storch close to it could be a great idea for a diorama.
Massimo

I wasn't sure - the only place I could think of to look quickly was your LaGG-3 research pages. There I found several LaGG-3's finished in white distemper with red numerals, but no "Red 27". Regardless, I was surprised at the very good quality of these photos - most of what you see on ebay.de is not as good.

John

Gentlemen,

first of all, merry christmas and a happy new year to all of you!

and now my question: as i intend to build the Amodel Yak-9U (1/72) i'd like to ask for the photographic evidences for the following profiles (source: Mushroom Yak-9U & P):

(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=39265ac6f74083134ee695c620c9dee4)
(http://imghost.webspell.eu/image.php?id=995663bee44c5476ffb125ade255ea3f)

I own the Mushroom book and the AJ-Press publication, but they don't have the pictures i'm looking for.

Furthermore, is there anything to say about the Amodel kit? Every built model i've seen looks quite nice...

Hi Christan, :)
I've built and nearly completed the Yak-3 vk-107 of Amodel, that has a lot of common sprues with the Yak-9U.
I consider it excellent and relatively easy to build. The only thing is, if I remember well, to see if the thickness of plastic of the fuselage allows to place correctly the exhaust pipes.
By the way, are there good photos of the engine VK-107 on that book?
Massimo

Hi, :)
that is interesting. Could anyone make some high resolution scans of the pages on the engine, please?
Massimo

Hi there,

thanks for your input on the Amodel kit, sounds good! I'm actually planning to make the markings via a template, those numerals shouldn't be such a problem (although i'd still like to see the original pictures!)

P.S. Check your mailbox Massimo! (we have to care at least a little about copyright issues i think  ::))

Hi Christian, :)
thank you very much.
I've already asked Mushrooms some years ago for the permission to reproduce images from Barbarossa Victims, and they agreed, with the citation of the source. I'll ask them again, but I don't expect problems.
Massimo

A couple of I-153 shots; note the RO-82 rails:
http://cgi.ebay.de/2-Technik-Foto-Flugzeug-Flieger-Russland-h2688_W0QQitemZ130187079814QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Possibly interesting detail photo of MiG-3 (MiG-1?):
http://cgi.ebay.de/B17-Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-Rata_W0QQitemZ370010675142QQihZ024QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
interesting photos, thank you.
The third image is a MiG-3. It shows many interesting details, including the wingroot tanks that I had never seen in photo, and the electrical panel open. It's interesting to see that the worn out fabric cover has a different color than the wooden part that remains uncovered.
What plane is the two-engined one on the background of the first photo of I-153? I don't recognize the type.
Massimo

There was another photo from the same vendor which shows the same scene (aircraft, empty barrels) from a different angle - I didn't post the link, because it was photographed from a distance, and there wasn't much detail visible in it. It shows a DB-3 or Il-4 in the background, behind the I-153 - could it be one of these? I'll try to find the image again later and post the link.

John

Hello everybody:
What really took my attention was that the I-153 has 4 rails under each wing,I?ve never seen this configuration before.Thanks John for this links,very nice photos.Best regards:

Martin

Hi, guys.
Well, when I reply to a question like this, you may already be guessing  :D
I vote for IL-4. I think that cooling louvers are visible (thick and light-colored line after engine covers that are removed). Then, there is a small hole on upper part of engine nacelle. Both items are typical for early IL-4 (and with DB-3F). Late IL-4 had engine nacelles similar to those of early DB-3 (but not "F").

However, color on that particular aircraft is very interesting. Light grey?

Cheers!

Here it is; see the first of the three photos on this page. In it, you can see the Il-4 with that I-153 off to the left, and the empty barrels in the foreground; the other two are closer shots of that Il-4:
http://cgi.ebay.de/3-TOP-Technik-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Fliegerei-h2682_W0QQitemZ130187077926QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This might be the same Il-4, from even closer:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Technik-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Douglas-Bomber-h2680_W0QQitemZ130187077333QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

And everyone thought *I* had problems distinguishing between Il-4 and DB-3 (or even Potez 175)! Maybe "DB" = "Douglas Bomber"? ;) Maybe a throwback to propaganda lies which tried to convince the rest of the world that Russia could not design her own modern aircraft, would have been overwhelmed by the Nazis without Lend-Lease support, blah, blah, blah? What *is* a "Douglas Bomber", anyway? A converted DC-2? A B-23 Bolo? Not exactly a big part of the VVS's equipment list in 1941 (or *anyone's* equipment list!), and yet I've seen twin-engined Russian aircraft photos on ebay.de identified as "Douglas Bombers" numerous times!

John

Oh, yeah, I knew you were talking about these :) Been looking for them on my PC, but could not fount them... Well, it is IL-4  8)

As for "Douglas", I think they were thinking this was A-20 Douglas/Boston, but at that time everybody were missinterpreting Soviet aircraft. If I remember correctly, when I-15's appeared in China they were called "Curtiss" by Japanese.

Cheers

Yes , it is a pity that some people are still in the Dark Age !
[/color]

ditto ! (see above)
[/color]

Hi,
I finished browsing that album which ChristianK provided a link:
http://news.webshots.com/album/550833578RUsEmU?start=0

Here are the most interesting ones:

TB-3
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2625668020089413999cwqfaO

SB-2
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2584911180089413999hjcQBp
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2711477860089413999qsDCSU
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2439740950089413999VZSqwb
http://news.webshots.com/photo/2769790390089413999qlGxHT

On the last one you can see a number "4" on the undersurface of the wing.

Cheers!

Interesting shot of a MiG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/044-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799990QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Another one of the same aircraft:
http://cgi.ebay.de/045-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799998QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

An A-20 (sort of a "Douglas Bomber", I guess):
http://cgi.ebay.de/053-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-Ostfront-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170183800082QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi, :)
interesting photos of miG-3. This is already drawn in my profiles as Overposed 14, and it's known to have black bands on the tail. I supposed that they were on all the plane, but these photos seem a convincing demonstration that they were on the tail only. I think that I'll modify the profile.
Massimo

Thanks, Massimo - I'm glad my contribution might be useful. I thought I had seen this aircraft somewhere before, but I believed it was in a photo. Maybe a thorough check of avia-n-aero might turn up another image? It's really a great site for Barbarossa-era photos - I wish I could contact the site owner and thank him!  :)

John

Aha! Here's another photo of a MiG-3 which could be "Overposed 14", from avia-n-aero, as I hoped:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=5581&countdisplay=&start=0

There are some other images of a MiG-3 with the numeral 28 seemingly chalked on the fin which look suspiciously similar to Overposed 14...  ???

I'll try to get time to hunt for more, after dinner and my daughter's homework are done!? :D

John

Well, I didn't find any more images which are definitely "Overposed 14"; this one, maybe? But I can't see that lovely Russian birch tree in the foreground in any of the other photos:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4673&start=0

Despite a lot of similarities between that aircraft and "White 28", at this point, I think they are two different aircraft, unfortunately! I was hoping that the "28" marking might have been chalked on as some kind of (perhaps) salvage operation identification, but other photos show the marking was probably much more permanent in nature. What fooled me was the similarity between the ebay.de image (I'd suggest anyone who's interested should save it soon, before it vanishes off ebay):
http://cgi.ebay.de/045-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Winter-Ostfront_W0QQitemZ170183799998QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

...and these two, from a-n-a:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4488&countdisplay=&start=0
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=19&parent_id=19&photo_id=4487&start=0

Details like the twisted position of the right main wheel, the undamaged prop blades, the dangling panel under the wing centre-section, and of course the missing wings made me think these might all be photos of one aircraft, but other details (trees in the background, etc.) are different. Oh well...? :-[

John

Hi John, :)
I've redrawn the profile of 14 and I'll upload it soon with 3 photos.
One more photo showing the intact fuselage was sent to me from mr. Peczowski of Mushrooms a pair of years ago. The fuselage was still intact and a red star was visible. It is somewhere on my hd.
n.4 and n.28 are not the same plane, even if some photos are similar because of the perspective. There is a profile of 28 too in my page.
Massimo

Hi, :)
I've uploaded the new version of the profile overposed 14, plus photos of two interesting models: the fine MiG-3 white 54 of Libor Jekl, already seen on the forum, and a MiG-1 converted from an Hobbyboss MiG-3 made by Uwe Borchert, a particularly fine model. Have a look to the Updates page.
Massimo

Hi Massimo!  :)  Looks good - thanks very much!

John

Hello everybody:

I want to congratulate Libor and Uwe,both made an excellent work in their Migs.Libor?s Mig paint scheme is quite attractive and Uwe?s convertion and painting? is very well done.Massimo,I like your article of "Overposed 14",thanks for sharing it.Best regards:

Martin

You're welcome.  :)
Aesthetically speaking, the interpretation with the camouflaged tail only is more interesting, but I didn't dare to propose it immediately, two years ago, because I suspected that the reflection of the surface could have hidden the camo all over the plane. The images from the front-side seem to demonstrate the absence of camo on the fuselage sides.
Massimo

P-39:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Airacobra-Russland-Lend-Lease-RAR_W0QQitemZ150204468137QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Thanks John for this magnificent picture.It looks like the stars has a yellow border and there is a circle of paint covering the RAF roundel as well as a band of a similar shade covering the tail flag.Greetings:

Martin

Possibly interesting shot of a MiG-3, although somewhat obstructed and from a bad angle:
http://cgi.ebay.de/FOTO-Soldaten-vor-russ-FLUGZEUG-auf-ZUG-verladen-WK_W0QQitemZ150205895860QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here's two shots of an SB with interesting camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/142-2x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-Tarnfarbe-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180206828449QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Polikarpov R-Z:
http://cgi.ebay.de/106-Orig-Foto-Beute-Flugzeug-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170185749753QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John,  :)
interesting. At first look it recalls Yellow 32, but there are some differences-in first place, the absence of the number 32.
Massimo

Unusual shot of MiG-3 wreckage - shows details of upper cowling:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-zerstoertes-Flugzeug-crashed-airplane-BAA004_W0QQitemZ290198641027QQihZ019QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

From avia-n-aero, this ski-equipped Yak-1 is gorgeous (and I've probably posted it before, but I love this photo)! There are 4 more images of the same aircraft buried elsewhere in the site, but this is the best of them. Some day I might even build it from the Amodel kit:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=29&parent_id=29&photo_id=894&countdisplay=&start=0

John

Cool! Maybe if you can post some images of the finished product, it'll inspire me with my 1/72 Amodel project. What colour do you think the fuselage number was? As I mentioned, there are several more images of this Yak-1 on avia-n-aero - do you have them? If not, I'm sure I can come up with the URL's, with a bit of digging. LMK!

John

What, unwilling to plough through 5380 fascinating images of glorious Russian aircraft? Comrade Dark Green Man, I think we must investigate your loyalty to the noble objectives of the People's VVS Modelbuilding Collective...? ;D

Turns out there are only 3 more - one image is duplicated, so 3 more in total plus the one I already posted, not 4:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=30&parent_id=0&photo_id=4709&countdisplay=&start=960
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=492&parent_id=0&photo_id=3567&countdisplay=&start=2080
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=492&parent_id=0&photo_id=2627&start=2080

Here's the one I already posted, for the sake of completeness:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=29&parent_id=29&photo_id=894&countdisplay=&start=0

I suggest (based on past experience) that anyone who wants to save these should do it quickly, because the URL addresses usually change every time the site owner adds new images.

John

LOL !
my comradeship in the Collective is not in question, please do not send the G.R.U. after me !
what I should have said is ' instead of spending hours looking at images that time for me is better spent actually working on the model'

although proper research is a requirement so too is time spent actually working on it.
how else can you become Hero of Socialist(modeling) Labor if you never actually labor?

as for saving the images... I always do for the exact reason you mention.
I second the idea for everyone else.

p.s. Thank You for the URL's  ;D

[/color]

Hello everybody:

Really an attractive subject,I have an Acc. Min. kit too and it has no decals,so these would be a good scheme.I?ll got to "steal" the skis from ICM Yak-7.
Thanks John for these links,the photos are very useful for a future project.Best regards:

Martin

Series of 7 images of early LaGG-3 - badly damaged, but possibly interesting:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=214&parent_id=31

John

Several photos of different aircraft (although one of them is a Fairey Battle):
http://cgi.ebay.de/9-russ-Flugzeug-Fotos_W0QQitemZ160203484686QQihZ006QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Yugoslavian Yak-1b:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-Flugzeug-Yak-1M-1945-nb25_W0QQitemZ280196896403QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Nice shot of I-153, although no markings visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-Flugzeug-I-153-nb26_W0QQitemZ280196896374QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Il-4 (I think... ;) ):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-Flugzeug-Bomber-Il-4-nb21_W0QQitemZ280196894874QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Good image of MiG-3, although no markings visible except star:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Flugzeug-II-WK-100-ORIGINAL-FOTO_W0QQitemZ250214551600QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Possibly useful shot of Po-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-deut-Flugzeug-mit-Roten-Stern_W0QQitemZ160209710726QQihZ006QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Various TB-3 photos:
http://cgi.ebay.de/075-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170195101618QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/076-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180216930663QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/077-7x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170195101636QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hangar shot of Tupolev ANT-25:
http://cgi.ebay.de/E38-Flugzeug-mit-Kennung-in-Halle-top-Foto_W0QQitemZ300200121618QQihZ020QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Not VVS, but on the other hand, you don't see one of these every day!
http://cgi.ebay.de/6-original-Foto-Flugzeug-Privataufnahme_W0QQitemZ280202304833QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Two I-153's on rail cars - the second photo might be useful for markings:
http://cgi.ebay.de/014-2x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180215573037QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Two Yak-1 images - fuselage number 13:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Or-Foto-Beute-Flugzeug-mit-Kennung-13_W0QQitemZ270213830036QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.de/Or-Foto-Flugzeug-Jagdflugzeug-mit-Soldaten_W0QQitemZ270213830291QQihZ017QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

A-20 (Ex-RAF Boston), showing RAF serial and roundel starting to show faintly through VVS star/camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Technik-Flugzeug-russisch-Wappen-DC-3-Tarnanstrich_W0QQitemZ250215698281QQihZ015QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Not VVS, but one of those photos which seems to need a caption...  :D
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-erbeutetes-Flugzeug_W0QQitemZ220205122657QQihZ012QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

"I TOLD those idiots - gas up the plane first, THEN go for a smoke..."

John

Tell me when you've had enough...? ;)

Nieman R-10; nice photo, but no individual markings visible (rudder is missing):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-abgeschossenes-russisches-Flugzeug_W0QQitemZ190202168551QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Two of a DB-3 with unusual camouflage:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-mit-Tarnung_W0QQitemZ190202168965QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-mit-Tarnung_W0QQitemZ190202168980QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John,  :)
Beautiful photos, all of them. Thank you for sharing the link.
Massimo

Ignore the title - it's not a Yak-1, it's an Il-2, but a nice one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/FOTO-FLUGZEUG-JAGER-Yak1-FLUGPLATZ-WILNA-VINIUS-Litauen_W0QQitemZ150220741341QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Okay, these ARE Yaks:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Jak-1M-nb49_W0QQitemZ280204847011QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Po-2 3-seater (?) with neat nose marking and an I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Po-2-3sitzer-I-16-nb47_W0QQitemZ280204847057QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-153 close-up:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jaeger-I-153-Motor-nb50_W0QQitemZ280204848707QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Another Nieman R-10:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Nieman-R-10-selten-nb41_W0QQitemZ280203750741QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Another Douglas A-20:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-A-20-Havoc-Lend-Lease-nb46_W0QQitemZ280203753294QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-16 nose - might be useful:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russland-Flugzeug-russ-Jagdflieger-Rata-zerstoert_W0QQitemZ380000437614QQihZ025QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for sharing.
The last image of I-16 is very strange. Who knows if someone has striped off all the fabric layer, leaving the wood with putty visible?
Massimo

Hi Massimo! Yes, I had the same thought regarding the appearance of the I-16.

(I hope everyone likes my new avatar - it might bring back memories for any North American members old enough to remember "Wonder Wart-Hog" comics, by Gil Shelton and Tony Bell, from the 1970's! For those not so lucky, Wonder Wart-Hog was a parody of the usual superheroes, with some bad habits. Super Fool was one of his evil enemies - his disguise was a lampshade with eyeholes, and he always rode around on a unicycle. I can relate to him - just read a few of my posts... ;) )

John

LaGG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/TOP-Foto-Flugzeug-2-WK-Notlandung-Ansehen_W0QQitemZ300203281540QQihZ020QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
the LaGG looks missing the wing and the rear fuselage. Nice photo, however.

Wonder Warthog? I suppose he is a sort of Rat-man, a parody of superhero, very popular in Italy and very ironic.
Massimo

Thanks, Massimo! Sounds like exactly the same idea - ironic, and probably some political content, too!  ;)


Thanks, Paul! Yes, the more photos, the better! I keep hoping/imagining that I, or someone else, will discover something really amazing, although ebay.de is probably not where things like that might be found. But you never know! It's been very quiet at avia-n-aero lately, but at least the site is still available.

John

I-16 type 5:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Flugzeug-mit-Soldat-Beute-II-WK-100-Original-Foto_W0QQitemZ380002652059QQihZ025QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Here are some small collections; each of them includes one or more photos of the same Il-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/019-2x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180221078513QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.de/020-2x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180221078545QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.de/021-3x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Jaeger-2-WK_W0QQitemZ180221078578QQihZ008QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.de/025-4x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-2-WK_W0QQitemZ170199115207QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Su-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Bomber-Su-2-nb56_W0QQitemZ280205641351QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jaeger-I-153-nb54_W0QQitemZ280205638754QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

UT-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Original-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Schulflgz-UT-1-nb55_W0QQitemZ280205638824QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

MiG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110228814403&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

Basta!  ;)

John

Good shot of MiG-3, with wing gun housings:
http://cgi.ebay.de/WWII-WKII-FOTO-FLUGZEUG-27_W0QQitemZ310029466548QQihZ021QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

SB:
http://cgi.ebay.de/WWII-WKII-FOTO-FLUGZEUG-22_W0QQitemZ260217875083QQihZ016QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

I-16 type 5 or 6? (Stand somewhere else, Buddy!):
http://cgi.ebay.de/WWII-WKII-FOTO-FLUGZEUG-26_W0QQitemZ260217875557QQihZ016QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Hi John,
good. Thank you for sharing the link. The MiG-3 looks known from another photograph. Pity that we can't read codes on its tail.

The I-16 should be a type 6, it lacks the guides for the sliding-forward canopy.

Massimo

Thanks John for this nice pictures.As Massimo said,the I-16 is a Type 6,or as I prefer to call it,a Type 5 of late production.It has the rounded windscreen.Greetings:

Martin

Yow! A major update on avia-n-aero, including this beautiful early Yak-1, with skis and rocket rails - too bad the photo doesn't show markings:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=22&parent_id=0&photo_id=5877&countdisplay=&start=40

The first 6 pages have been added in the past day or two; the URL for a-n-a is:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php

John

Hi John, :)
this image is really good! Good resolution, no defects... one can even see inside the wheels bays lightened by the reflex of snow!
Massimo

This one is especially interesting:

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=30&parent_id=0&photo_id=5883&countdisplay=&start=40

It proves the delivery of ultra-secret prototypes to the Soviets before June 1941, like Ju 88 nightfighters and late-mark Stukas  ;D

Yes, I also noticed, on this aircraft at least, it shows clearly that the wheel wells and inner faces of the landing gear doors were painted in a colour different from the AII Blue of the undersurfaces.


Hitler, under conditions of worsening diplomatic relations between Russia and Germany, realized too late that the Soviets might develop effective war machines from these prototypes (and from the time machine which delivered them), and turn them against him. He ordered the launch of Operation Barbarossa, with one of its key objectives being the seizure and return or destruction of these prototypes. I'm sure I read it on the Internet somewhere, so it *must* be true... ;)

John

Hi, :)
I think that this photo was taken at the war's end in a German airfield captured by Russians.
Massimo

Oh Massimo, you're such a poor sport  :D

But you're adressing an interesting issue, pictures of german airfields taken by soviet soldiers at the end of war. Is there any other published collection of such photos besides the "Trofej" from Frontline Illustrations? (I know it's a little off topic, let's call it "Late war VVS photos with german planes in the background")

Christian

Ok, you were joking.
About books on this topic, I've only the one that you have already mentioned.
Massimo

Hi Massimo - I wonder if the Yak-1 in the link above is the same one as this:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=29&parent_id=29&photo_id=894&countdisplay=&start=0

There are 4 images of the "Yellow (White?) 6" Yak-1 on Avia-n-Aero; I don't think any of them is from a correct angle to show whether or not that aircraft has rocket rails, though.

John

Hah! I found it:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=30&parent_id=0&photo_id=4709&countdisplay=&start=1200

This (I assumed previously because of the surroundings and the people in the photo) is another shot of "Yellow 6", even though the number is not visible. If you save it, then open it with whatever image editor you use, and increase the brightness, you can see a set of RO-82 rails under the right wing! That, plus the similarity in camouflage pattern and the snow and other objects under the aircraft, leads me to believe that the new photo is in fact also "Yellow 6". Five separate images of the same unusual Yak-1 - skis, rocket rails, dropped flaps, and summer camouflage - I think that's amazing. I wonder if there was something special going on that resulted in so much photo-taking? Regardless, what a great and well-documented subject for a model!

Edit - I just noticed that in all 5 images, the prop blades are in the same rotational position, too!  :D

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for the link. On the side-rear image the rocket rails are visible, overposed to the landing gear. Even if the prop is rotated, it looks likely that it's the same plane.
Massimo

Thanks, DGM - I did see what you're talking about, but I wasn't 100% sure that that very small object isn't the foot of a second person running behind the aircraft - you can see one person, more-or-less in line with the prop blade. I thought there might be another one as well. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it! ;)

John

Hi,

some more VVS photos:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/12286
Click on the thumbnails at the right of the screen.

Jean

Thank You again for that link also !
some interesting images that I had not seen before.

[/color]

Thanks very much Apex! This is a great site - I also found that if you click on "rata 16"'s avatar, you go to his home (?) page. Scroll down, and you find a *large* list of links to multi-page albums on this site, with images from other members besides "rata 16". There's some great photos among these, too!

John

From deeper into the yandex.ru site that Apex directed us to, two great shots of a Yak-1, with a guy in a leather coat doing strange things with a rope:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33342/
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33341/

A MiG-3 gets the same treatment:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33340/
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33339/
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33338

A captured Arado 234!
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33334

How to draw a VVS red star:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/2843/


I'm sure there's lots more to look at!? ;D

John

here's a Hurricane if anyone is interested.
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/33336/
and another photo of Eremin's Yak-1b
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/20210/
and a very interesting A-20 Boston
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/19539/
and a very nicely decorated P-39
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/vera111/view/13001/
an Il-2 with a lot of writing on it
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/12290/
and a really big bomb!
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/rata16/view/2164/
[/color]

Thanks DGM for these links,you made a very good selection.The Hurricane photo is very interesting,it looks like a MkIIb painted in black (it clearly has no camouflage).Is it Hurricane Z2899 which was tested by the VVS?If someone has more info and photos of this plane,will be very welcomed.Greetings:

Martin

Hi Martin,

got a colour plate and some infos in Osprey #74:
Soviet lend-lease fighter aces of WW2.

If interested let me know.


Jean

Hi Jean:

Thank you very much,but you remind me that I have that Osprey book about Lend -Lease fighters,I?m going to chesk it out.Nevertheless,it would be great know if there is one photo of Z2899 showimg its serial.Best regards:

Martin

Good, sharply-focussed photos of I-15bis:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-WEHRMACHT-Flugzeug-airplane-Selten_W0QQitemZ130206546774QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-WEHRMACHT-Flugzeug-airplane-Selten_W0QQitemZ130207810272QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-WEHRMACHT-Flugzeug-airplane-Selten_W0QQitemZ130207831263QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Very pretty Yak UT-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-Flugzeug-russisch-Jaeger-Kennung_W0QQitemZ380007984937QQihZ025QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I-153; rough condition, but details visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-WEHRMACHT-Flugzeug-airplane-Selten_W0QQitemZ130206547218QQihZ003QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi, :)
could you send me too the documents on the black Hurricane? I remember to have seen a photo in some other book, but I wasn't able to find it again.
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

here are the 2 scans:
(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/Hurri01.jpg)

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/Apex1701/Hurri02.jpg)

Jean

Hi Jean,  :)
thank you very much. I like the effect of the red stars on a black plane.
Massimo

Hi John, :)
thank you. These photos are particularly good.
Massimo

Hi,

(Massimo)
thank you very much. I like the effect of the red stars on a black plane.
(Jean)
Yep very nice indeed. With some weathering on it it'll make a great model subject.

More photos

I-16 with interesting logo:
http://www.hranitels.ru/forum/photoplog/index.php?n=77

La-5fn:
http://www.hranitels.ru/forum/photoplog/index.php?n=437

Some interesting digital paintings can be found here:
http://www.hranitels.ru/forum/photoplog/index.php?c=8
Great for desktop pictures!!

Here too:
http://www.hranitels.ru/forum/photoplog/index.php?c=5

Some interesting photos in this site:
http://aeroram.narod.ru/win/intro.htm

Yak-1
http://aeroram.narod.ru/foto/foto43.jpg
http://aeroram.narod.ru/foto/foto52.jpg

This Lagg-3 intrigues me the most. What do you think of the stripe under the red star:
http://soldat1941.narod.ru/photo106.jpg

All the best.

Jean

Wow - thanks, Jean! I can see there's many hours of happy digging ahead for me!  :D


That's the Order of the Red Banner. Go here for Soviet honours - orders, decorations, medals:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awards_and_decorations_of_the_Soviet_Union

John

Hi Jean, :)
interesting photo indeed. It worths a profile.
In my opinion, the band is painted silver. Its darkness changes greatly according to the inclination, while other colors are nearly flat.
Massimo

Thanks a lot Jean for the links,wonderful photos and paintings.
This I-16 is interesting not only for its badge,it looks like an UTI-4 reconverted to single seater!!!! Please look at the windshield,the position of the cockpit (too forward) and the long ailerons.I would be a very attractive modelling subject,thanks Jean!!!
Best regards:

Martin

Hi guys,

some photos and profiles from Safonov's IAP...(if my understand of the russian language is correct!!!)
http://www.eismeerfront.com/eis_html/vvc_02.htm

Jean

Awesome! Thanks again, Jean! I was really fascinated with Photo 2 - not only does it have an amazing inscription and cowling and spinner colours, the wheels are unlike anything I've ever seen on an I-16 before. Then I used Babelfish to translate the caption - unfortunately, it's a somewhat imaginary replica of one of Safonov's aircraft:

"Mock-up Safonovo I -16, built in the poslevoyenye years for the museum of the aviation of northern fleet. The majorities of the visitors of museum even do not surmise about that, how strongly is differed this exhibit from the real machine, in which once warred legendary North Sea ace Boris safonov."

Great page, though - I bookmarked it immediately and saved the images to My Favourites!  :D

Happy Easter, by the way!

John

Thanks Jean for another superb link.
John,I liked that plane too,it has a very interresting paint scheme.But something took my attention:its lines were too straight and had no engine cowiling at all...thanks John,mistery solved.What a dissapointment!!!
Greetings:

Martin

Hi guys,

another album:
http://world-war.ru/foto/thumbnails.php?album=7

The Normandy-Niemen Yak-3 seems gorgeous.
It's a pity we can`t see it all :-(

Jean

Hi Jean, :)
thank you for the link.
Tha dark noses of the planes on the background are due to some cover, in your opinion?
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

I think you're right.
Using the higher resolution photo we can it's some kind of tarp.

What's surptiseng me the most is the high bort number.
I'm no expert in the Normandie-Niemen regiment  :'(
but that was the first time I've seen these kind of numbers.
With 14 victories that plane should be known better.
More research  ;D
All the best.

Jean

More photos from the Normandie-Niemen:

http://www.militaryvideo.ru/eng/forum/viewtopic.php?p=534&sid=cb7cb8871916207edb0bf49248a6a461
http://normandieniemen.free.fr/Les_photos_du_Normandie_Niemen.htm

Arrival at le-Bourget
http://clo.pictures.product.free.fr/modules/extgallery/public-album.php?id=10

Yak-3 profiles and pictures:
http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-3/yak-3.html
Including bort 35 profiles and photo taken at Le-Bourget:
http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-3/color2/pic_yak-3_nn_35.html
http://airfield.narod.ru/yak/yak-3/color2/photo_yak-3_nn_34.html

Jean

Thanks, Jean - I especially liked the photo of Mikhail Grib's Yak-9D on the second page of the first link you provided! And that group shot of NN Yaks at Le Bourget is a real historical gem.

John

Hi guys,

Glad that you found some of my links interesting.

In spanish. Some interesting photos and files.
Here's one page:
http://www.rkka.es/Entrevistas/alekseev/parte_08.htm

Check this pdf with lot's od pics of German Italians and japanese destroyed/captured planes:
http://www.rkka.es/Archivos_Z/Luftwaffe_losses_eastern_front.pdf

Home page:
http://www.rkka.es/index.htm
Lots of perusing ahead!!!

Other pics for the Neu-Neu:
http://normandie-niemen.forumpro.fr/leurs-avions-f5/photos-de-yak3-du-nn-trouve-sur-pegase-tv-t72.htm


Jean

Ooops, forgot this one:
http://tisnov.safarikovi.org/matusek.html


Jean

Avia-n-aero has been updated yet again:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php

Some favourites - another of a Yak-1 (actually two of them) with skis:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=2&parent_id=0&photo_id=5999&countdisplay=&start=0

That Yak-1 again:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=673&parent_id=0&photo_id=5953&countdisplay=&start=40
...with two more images on the same page that were previously buried somewhere deeper into the site:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=673&parent_id=0&photo_id=5954&countdisplay=&start=40
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=673&parent_id=0&photo_id=5952&countdisplay=&start=40

Two of a LaGG-3 marked "White 29":
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=22&parent_id=0&photo_id=5956&countdisplay=&start=40
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=22&parent_id=0&photo_id=5955&countdisplay=&start=40

Big-gun I-16:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=668&parent_id=0&photo_id=5930&countdisplay=&start=40

I know I've seen this I-16 before, in a different photo - Erik Pilawskii's book, page 120; this photo shows the unusual tail insignia more clearly:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=668&parent_id=0&photo_id=5929&countdisplay=&start=40

Pure gold!!! The guy who runs this site is my hero for life!

John

Thanks , John!
more very interesting images
my favorite is the I-16 Type 28? ;D

[/color]

Nice I-16 type 5:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russisches-Flugzeug_W0QQitemZ190215305860QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

A man, a dog, and their I-16, playing in the snow:
http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-2-WK_W0QQitemZ190215074569QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Type 28:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jaeger-I-16-m-Kennung-nb82_W0QQitemZ280218435995QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

UT-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russisches-Flugzeug_W0QQitemZ190215306839QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-russisches-Flugzeug_W0QQitemZ190215307621QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Yak-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Abgeschossener-Russischer-Jaeger_W0QQitemZ170210901101QQihZ007QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Hi John, :)
Nice images, particularly the one with the dog.
Massimo

Nice I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Jaeger-I-16-m-Kennung-nb87_W0QQitemZ280219787502QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

Il-2 - tail number and some details of camouflage visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Bomber-Il-2-m-Kennung-nb86_W0QQitemZ280219782309QQihZ018QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

Hi John, :)
the I-16 gives the idea to have a 3 shade camo in mid fuselage. Pity that the image is small and with an inscription.
Thank you for sharing.
Massimo

Thank You John for making 'trolling' so easy.? ;D

I am aware of two other photos of that same Il-2 and the camoflage pattern is quite interesting.
the first SMER kit I've built (second in the box) has that same camo colors and markings but I did not have an appropriate 4 so I found a similar 8 and used that.
I'm also considering doing it in 1/48 th scale , possibly as the Workbench article.

[/font]

LaGG-3:
http://cgi.ebay.de/RUSS-FLUGZEUG-AIRCRAFT-LaGG-3-MIT-KENNUNG-WK-2-FOTO_W0QQitemZ190227290843QQihZ009QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

http://www.airforce.ru/history/cold_war/mihin/index.htm
Look here for Yaks...

Hi John, :)
this is a previously unknown photo. It looks of series 8 or comparable.
Massimo


Hi Oleg, :)
it looks interesting. Are you thinking to translate it?
Massimo

Yep. Looking forward for a vacation... And may be I will do some translations. This is interview with KW ace HSU Mikhin.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airforce.ru%2Fhistory%2Fcold_war%2Fmihin%2Findex.htm&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate

Crap! I couldn't understand a single word! Or to be exact - I understood every word, but it is not something to be read and undersood as a whole...

by now I think we all know that machine translation is a bit 'rough'
http://www.online-translator.com/url/tran_url.asp?lang=en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.airforce.ru%2Fhistory%2Fcold_war%2Fmihin%2Findex.htm&direction=re&template=General&cp1=NO&cp2=NO&autotranslate=on&psubmit2.x=52&psubmit2.y=11

Here's a rarity - three Kocherigan DI-6's:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-FLUGZEUG-aircraft-RATA-Jaeger-Tarnung-Ostfront-WK2_W0QQitemZ150269016469QQihZ005QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

John

This is same place - http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=499&parent_id=499

A whole page of DI-6 photos - thank you very much! I like your web site very much - it's a wonderful reference source.

John

Crashed Yak-7UTI - too bad there are no markings visible except stars:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-RUSSLAND-airplane-FLUGZEUG-Wrack-2-WK-RAR-h_W0QQitemZ380049704806QQihZ025QQcategoryZ15504QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John

Hi John, :)
I think to see a red 7 behind the red star.
Massimo

Hi guys,

found another pics site.


Mig-3 late version:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/48999/

I-16 type10?
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/49414/

For Marluc a Ni-17/23 with a nice lady ;-)
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/50160/

Interesting Yak-7bs
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/49548/

Yak-9 with teeth:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/96262/

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/96264/

I suggest that you peruse the albums you might find other interesting items!!!

Jean

Very cool site, Jean! I could spend hours lost in it; I found a P-39 that looks interesting:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/52476/
Another one:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/52475/
A good shot of the inscription on Alexei Aleluhin's La-7:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/gennadiy-spb/view/52443/

John

Thanks Jean,excellente site.Very interesting photos,including one flying P-40M with a sharkmouth.Best regards:

Martin

Interesting P-39:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russ-Jagd-Flugzeug-auf-Boecke-gestellt-im-2-WK_W0QQitemZ290257377976QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item290257377976&_trkparms=72%3A823%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

My favourite I-16 - three more new images! This must be the most-photographed I-16 of the whole war:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Rata-gr-Nachlass-JG53_W0QQitemZ320294789591QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320294789591&_trkparms=72%3A823%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russische-Rata-DETAIL-gr-Nachlass-JG53_W0QQitemZ320294787860QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320294787860&_trkparms=72%3A823%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russischer-Jaeger-Rata-gr-Nachlass-JG53_W0QQitemZ320294795675QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item320294795675&_trkparms=72%3A823%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

John

Thank you John, :)
really clear images, full of details.
Massimo

Thanks John,very insteresting photos.I like the Airacobra photo a lot.Best regards:

Martin

More goodies - I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Jagdflieger-Rata-Beute-SUPER_W0QQitemZ290283489711QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283489711&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I-15bis:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Jagdflieger-Rata-Beute-HAMMER_W0QQitemZ290283490144QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283490144&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Jagdflieger-Rata-Beute-TOP_W0QQitemZ290283490655QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283490655&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Il-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Jagdflieger-Iljuschin-IL-2_W0QQitemZ290283491671QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283491671&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

SB:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Tupolew-Iljuschin-Bomber_W0QQitemZ290283493199QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283493199&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Another SB:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-Tupolew-Iljuschin-Bomber-2_W0QQitemZ290283493643QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item290283493643&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

John

Hi John, :)
excellent photos indeed.
One of them is of an Ar-2 with damaged wing. I wonder if the damage was received on the ground, and if the strangely light look of the engine is due to some fire.
Massimo

Oops! Regarding the Ar-2, I should have been more careful before I posted that one as an SB! I'm sorry! :-[

John

Hi John, :)
it can be considered as the last version of SB, however.
Massimo

Woo hoo! A new update on the avia-n-aero site - 91 new images added. Let the HS crowd have their Google/Life and Footnote archives - we have avia-n-aero!!!  ;D

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for this note.
They are forthemost I-153, with some SB and I-16.
SB with mottled/wave mirror camo on third page are particularly nice.
Massimo

Thanks a lot John for this update,more interesting photos.Best regards:

Martin

Here's a terrific double photo of a wrecked Yak-1; even though no markings are visible, the two photos are interesting because they're so well focussed and because of the structural details which are visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/032-2x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-abgestuerzt_W0QQitemZ170314544115QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item170314544115&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

John

Hi John, :)
these are really clear images. Thank you for posting the link.
Massimo

Good clear photo of an I-16 type 5:
http://cgi.ebay.de/TOP-Foto-Russische-Flugzeug-II-WK_W0QQitemZ260415800089QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item3ca1fdc319&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Another early I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-Leutnant-vor-Flugzeug-I-16-RATA-im-Feld-Russ_W0QQitemZ170335515454QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item27a8c9b33e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A9%7C294%3A50
(Scroll down...)

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for posting.
Who knows if the band and number on the tail are white or what else...
Massimo

Thanks a lot John for the links,very interesting photos.
Massimo,at least to me,the number looks like red with a white border and the band,red at the top and a thin white line below.
The second I-16 looks like has no markings at all,not even red stars!!!
Best regards:

Martin

Here's one which may cause some discussion:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-erbeutetes-russisches-Flugzeug-Flieger-1-WK-II_W0QQitemZ320377189240QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item4a97f7f378&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A10%7C294%3A50

The camouflage is impossible to describe; the border of the red star looks like aluminum to me - lots of aluminum!

John

I think you have 'struck gold' with yet another German "meine doodle' (spelling?)
so in this case the star edge could quite literally be any color
particularly as I don't ever recall seeing a star border that thick before.
[/color]

I really have some trouble with that whole idea (the Germans were so bored they spent their time painting wrecked Russian aircraft? "The invasion on the Russian Front is going much too easily - we have to find some work for our soldiers so they don't turn to idleness and gambling. Have them paint wrecked aircraft."). I'd prefer to think that the very wide border on that star is the work of some highly motivated or very patriotic Russian ground crew member! I guess we will never be sure of the truth, though.

(I do have to say that the appearance of the people sitting on the aircraft does look more like some kind of work crew, rather than the usual "Wehrmacht tourists"! I don't see any paint brushes, but you never know!)

John

Hi,  :)
nice image, really! Let's make a try...
The base color could be aluminium (as on propeller and canopy frames), with hand brushed black, green and light brown, light blue undersurfaces and yellow star outline.
All that yellow? Perhaps this is the only thing that is suspect as meine doodle, in my idea.
Massimo

Great find John!

Regarding the star: I am pretty sure that this is a former large star replaced by a smaller one for more effective ground concealment. The broad "border" would hence be an unintended effect of this measure. It remains a mystery however, why there is a sharp demarcation line between the grey star-shaped area and the provisional camouflage. Here we have three possibilities:

1) The larger star was overpainted only after the camo job was done - but why the ground crew wouldn't have used one of the newer camo colors to do that, but exactly the same AEh laquer in which the plane originally was painted?

2) The older star was applied either as a decal or using washable paint and was removed after the camo was done. The original light grey color did show up again.

3) There was no star in this position before the camouflage job. When the unit decided to conceal its aircraft, this star scheme was masked out to apply a large star after the completion of the paint job. In the meantime the responsible officers changed their mind and a small star only was applied, leaving a large unpainted star-shaped area around it.

Maybe something similar happened to the number "17" on the rudder. It looks like being of the original light grey color, too. Anyway, a really impressive bird we have here.

Cheers,
Christian

EDIT: The same seller also offers this TB-3. Another marking never seen before:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-erbeutetes-russisches-Flugzeug-Flieger-2-WK-II_W0QQitemZ320377190286QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item4a97f7f78e&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

Me again,

forget what I just wrote about the star. After some browsing through different Il-4/DB-3 images I found that a small fuselage star was pretty standard for those Ilyushin bombers - so likely the small star was not a replacement for a larger one.

But still I am sure that the color around it is the original light grey laquer of the peace time scheme (Very probably this plane wasn't left in natural metal, as it clearly features a light blue undersurface color. This indicates the application of an upper surface color, too.). But frankly spoken, I have no idea now why they left this area unpainted when camouflaging the rest of the plane  ???

Sorry,
Christian

Hi Christian,
I see that the light border around the star os cutten by the light blue of undersurface.
In my idea the sequence was:
the plane was originally painted silver, as visinle on the engine and frames;
a 3 colors camo was applied on uppersurfaces;
a wide outline of uniidentified color was painted around the star;
the undersurfaces were painted light blue.

About the mystery color: I would exclude light blue, because it contrasts with the undersurface one. I would exclude silver, it should reflect in different way. Yellow is too visible, it would make the camo work unuseful. Now I am thinking to some light grey or some "dirty" white, or light blue-green as seen on a MiG.

Massimo

Hi Massimo,
while I have to agree with you about the silver/NMF finish on the engines/propellers/spinners I still believe that the dominating color of the uppersurfaces originally was a light grey. I believe some VVS bombers in the pre-Barbarossa era carried a light grey/light blue scheme; not all wore one color overall. Our DB-3 was one of them. Another example is this SB:

(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn166/btdaumann/SB-red9-AEh-applq.jpg)
Source: http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/Petlyakov/Pe-2/Camouflage/Manchuria/index.php

Clearly this SB features a light grey uppersurface and a light blue undersurface. There remains a possibility that these two colors were added when the temporary green was applied, but would the unit really have used light grey as a camo color during summer?

Anyway, the tone of the light colored star-frame on our DB-3 is an exact match for all spots of light grey showing through the temporary colors (except for the ones around the immediate front window area, but this is due to a more direct exposure to sunlight). Plus - if this would be a frame which was painted around the small star intentionally, how come it doesn't extent into the undersurface blue? You wrote this is because the undersurface was painted after the star was framed, but I think the light blue was there before (see my theory above). However, I might be all wrong with this, but it seems plausible to me. Ok, something that doesn't fit in my theory is the very light spot right aft of the fuselage star. But this might be just an area of chipped paint, as this is easily the lightest spot on the whole fuselage...

Now, whatever is true about this Ilyushin's color - is there any info about the unit and location of this TB-3 I've linked in my last post?

(http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn166/btdaumann/pix_792071091971243429015.jpg)

Here's quite a good photo of an I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/X25-Foto-russisches-Flugzeug-Jaeger-Rata-mit-Kennung_W0QQitemZ370209263439QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5632310f4f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1229%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

John

Beautiful photo,thanks a lot John.AEh-9 all over,white rudder and black bordered red number?
Greetings:

Martin

My guess is that the rudder is the same colour as the rest of the aircraft, but looks to be lighter because it is deflected at a slight angle, so the light is reflecting from it differently. Could the overall finish be aluminum, perhaps?

The main colour of the numeral on the rudder looks lighter than the red in the star on the fuselage, but maybe this is for the same reason (light reflecting at a different angle).

John

Hi Christian, hi all, :)
the image of SB is really beautiful.
However I think that the base livery is green/light blue, and the light camo bands were added later.
I have never seen a light grey/light blue plane in 1941.

About the TB-3: in my idea, all the uppersurface is dark green, or perhaps some dark green/faded black camo, apart for the colored bands on the tail (white/red?).
The light parts on the wing zone could be due to the feet of ground crew.
Massimo

Hi John, hi all, :)
that is an excellent image. Thank you again.
I think that the plane could be partially light grey (on metal parts) partly aluminium (on the fabric cover). Please note the difference in shade of the panel at the root of the stabilizer, that is metallic.

Massimo

Interesting detail photo of a wrecked MiG-3, with the instrument panel visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Sowjet-Russland-Detail-Technik-WK2_W0QQitemZ220442102095QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item33535f894f&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A4%7C294%3A50

First photo in this group of four is a nice clear shot of two wrecked I-16's, although no details visible:
http://cgi.ebay.de/009-4x-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Russland-2-WK_W0QQitemZ400058096957QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5d25521d3d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A4%7C294%3A50

I-16:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-abgeschossenes-Flugzeug-Russland_W0QQitemZ200352968074QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item2ea5f7ad8a&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A5%7C294%3A50

John

Hi John, :)
the image of MiG-3 is particularly interesting, it shows a lot of details including the supports that connect the tube structure (vertical) to the side dismountable panels (curved). It would be great if someone uses it to build a open MiG-3 on the base of the ICM model.
Massimo

I-153:
http://cgi.ebay.de/FOTO-FLUGZEUG-RUSSISCHER-DOPPELDECKER-mit-Nr-14_W0QQitemZ370223881396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5633101cb4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

MiG-3; no markings visible, though:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Org-Foto-erbeut-russ-Flugzeug-Aircraft-YAK-WWII_W0QQitemZ200357847780QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item2ea64222e4&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

John

Thanks John for sharing these links with us.I like particularly the I-153 photo,AEh-9 grey with black number perhaps? There?s an UTI-4 behind this Chaika.
Best regards:

Martin

Captured Pe-2:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-Beute-Pe-2-Balkenkreuz-LwH-Rahmel-Test_W0QQitemZ170354001273QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item27a9e3c579&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

Tail of same aircraft:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Flugzeug-russisch-Beute-Pe-2-BK-LwH-Rahmel-Test_W0QQitemZ170354013131QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item27a9e3f3cb&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

John

Hi, :)
I think that it's aluminium on fabric surfaces and light grey on metallic surfaces.
Massimo

This looks like a Il-4 to me; just scroll down to see both photos, including the rudder. It's a very complex camouflage pattern - it must have taken many hours (or many hands!) to apply:
http://cgi.ebay.de/2-Technik-Foto-LW-Flugzeug-russ-Bomber-Wrack-Orel-r847_W0QQitemZ140330803363QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item20ac5e20a3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A4%7C294%3A50#ebayphotohosting

John

Thanks Massimo.I think that the rudder is light grey or white.

Impresive paintwork,it would look great in a 1/72 model.Thanks for the link.
Greetings:

Martin

Hi John,
Great images! But about time required, I suspect that an uniform layer of green made by brush on a real plane would have required more time and more paint. On a model it's different, of course.

Hi Martin,
It could be, but for silver paint it's sufficient a slightly different inclination to reflect light in different way.

Massimo

I-16 photos:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russisches-Flugzeug-Rata_W0QQitemZ390066351480QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5ad1c42d78&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A4%7C294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.de/orig-Foto-Kameraden-vor-russ-Beute-Flugzeug-I-16-RATA_W0QQitemZ170355354500QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item27a9f86b84&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A4%7C294%3A50

SB photos:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Org-Foto-russ-Flugzeug-Aircraft-Iljuschin-DB-3WWII_W0QQitemZ200360472563QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item2ea66a2ff3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A6%7C294%3A50

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Legion-Condor-Spanien-Flugzeug-Beute-Bomber-SB-2_W0QQitemZ170355324870QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item27a9f7f7c6&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1229%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

John

Thanks again John for these links to very interesting photos.Best regards:

Martin

Greetings,

I found these interesting photos:

Il-2
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/Default.aspx?lang=en&pos=detail&id=45029&cat=&searchwords=aircraft

A well known Il-2 photo, but worth taking a look
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/Default.aspx?lang=en&pos=detail&id=67220&cat=&searchwords=aircraft

Polikarpov Po-2
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/Default.aspx?lang=en&pos=detail&id=18976&cat=&searchwords=aircraft

These are really very insteresting photos Warhawk,thanks for the links.The U-2 colours can be seen clearly and looks like the demarcation lines have a hard edge.Greetings:

Martin

An excellent Russian VVS photo site, by the courtesy of Konstantin Lesnikov, on ARC "Props" forum:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/photoarch/albums/

John

Wow , John . you have struck the mother load-again!
(it took me about an hour and a half to go through all the Yak pictures)
[/color]

Damn! Those are awesome...

Nice job!  8)

Thanks, but as I say, the credit really belongs to Konstantin! Glad to hear you found it interesting - I haven't had time to look at it myself. I was too busy doing that mega-reply on ARC about aluminum winter "camouflage" - better than black and green against the snow, I guess, but certainly not as good as MK-7! ;)

John

perhaps I should have said 'Thank You for bringing it to my attention at this forum'
although I am a member at ARC , I don't visit there very often as there isn't much there that interests me.
(the exception there is the information about USAAF and USN interior colors of WWII-priceless!)
now I will have to go there and look around...
[/color]

A million thanks John and Konstantin!!!! Superb site,I found a lot of remarkable photos.I visit the ARC "Props" forum almost every day but I missed this one,thanks John for sharing the link.
Greetings.

Martin

Nice photo of a Yak-1 (?):

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230376020513

Location could be Taizy, southwest of Leningrad/St.Petersburg

Two photos of the tail section of a MiG-3:

http://cgi.ebay.de/k79176-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-abgeschossen_W0QQitemZ350265211960QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item518d6efc38

http://cgi.ebay.de/k79175-Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Aircraft-abgeschossen_W0QQitemZ180419827497QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item2a01dc1729

The second one could be useful as a reference for detailing the radio shelf behind the pilot's seat; too bad the focus is not better. The colour of paint in this area looks darker than I expected - could it be A-19?

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for the link.
For what I know, the radio bay of the MiG-3 should be painted with the same color of exterior wooden parts.
About the color, on the base of the recent discussion on Arcmodel, I think that it's AII green that darkens with ageing.
On that discussion emerged that A-19 could be the green utilized for metal parts, that lightens with ageing and sun.
After the July 1941, those greens should be replaced with AMT-4 on camo planes.
Massimo

Thanks, Massimo - do you think A-14 (steel Grey) might also be a possibility?

John

Hi John, :)

That part was visible from outside and, if you paint it with the canopy removed, it's much easier to paint it green.
Besides Kari has written that green was the background on the metallic parts and probably on the inner side of many panels
So I think that the bay was green as the wooden outside.
Perhaps it could be of other colors on late migs, but my guess is for green on all.
Grey could be a guess for the rods of elevators, well visible on that photo but not when the plane is complete.

Massimo

Very good photo of a Yak-1:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=370282510742&Category=15504&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

MiG-3, with side of fuselage torn away. Interesting very high contrast between colour of metal parts compared with wood/fabric surfaces:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=220502501411&Category=15504&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2

John

Thanks John,very nice photos.The Mig-3 photo is particularly interesting,I?m wondering which colour is the lighter one.Greetings.

Martin

Really good images. Thank you , John, for sharing them.
I am wondering if the Yak is camouflaged, At a first look, the green looks uniform, but I haven't yet tried to increase the contrast.

About the lighter color: according to the idea emerged from the discussion on arcforum, it could be faded A-19f. I think that the wooden parts are AII green. The two colors could have been identical when new, but aged in different way.
Massimo

Hi Massimo! I thought exactly the same thing - the Yak appears to be finished in only one colour on its upper surfaces. I tried experimenting with the brightness and contrast, but I could not see anything different. It's interesting too that there is a glossy appearance to the upper surface of the wing, but I believe that this is a characteristic of the AII colours, isn't it?

John

Hi John,
yes, AII green and also of A-19F. I wonder if they have utilized AII on metal surfaces too, I think that they were very similar when new.
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
AII Zashch. seems to be routinely used on metal surfaces after special primer (?) was applied and heat-dried. Same procedure was maintained with AMT-4.
Combination of 2 paints, i.e. A-19f metal/AII Z rest or A-24m/AMT-4, is probable.
Cheers,
Mario

Hi Mario,
AII Z should be the commonly called AII green, isn't it?
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
AII Z was officially called "zashchitnyi", so was 4BO but it was commonly known it was green.
Cheers,
Mario

An interesting LaGG with some kind of fuselage band:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russland-Flugzeug-russ-Jagdflieger-Kennung-orig_W0QQitemZ380174210377QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5884261549 (http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-Russland-Flugzeug-russ-Jagdflieger-Kennung-orig_W0QQitemZ380174210377QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMilitaria?hash=item5884261549)

Can someone identify/decypher the location?

Cheers,
Christian

Hi Christian,
good image, pity for the inscription.
One photo of this plane was already known. Please, have a look to

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/captured/banded21.htm (http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/captured/banded21.htm)

Massimo

I found this on Scalemodels.ru - it's an excellent photo showing the windscreen of a MiG-3, and a few other minor details:
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVs019r

John

Thanks John for sharing it with us,details of the rear cockpit interior can be seen clearly.Greetings.

Martin

Here's another photo of that LaGG-3 with the aluminum fuselage band; it's been heavily overprinted with copy protection marks, but it's possibly useful:

(http://s2.postimage.org/1RJM9r.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts1RJM9r)

John

Thank you John,
the inscription is " Ein russischer J?ger" that means a russian fighter.

New update on avia-n-aero.ru:
http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php

Approximately 250 new images (6 pages plus) of German photos. One problem - now that the owner of the site is using it to sell books (possibly has found a sponsor, ozon.ru? This is a good thing, if it keeps the site alive), viewing the images requires a lot of extra scrolling in both vertical and horizontal directions because of the awkward and variable way the screen is split.

Some of these I haven't seen before, despite dredging through ebay.de almost every day for the past couple of years. There must be other national ebay sites I haven't stumbled on yet where some of these great photos have been auctioned.

Enjoy!

John

That resolution you use? I try to fix this problem.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'll try changing my resolution and see if that improves anything. Thank you (again!) for a great web site!

John

That is right: thank you again, avia-n-aero, for this excellent site. Without it, all those historical photos would be lost for the most of people after few weeks.
Massimo

Nice image of Spitfires and P-40s. Note how dark is painted the P-40.
Massimo
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/S0dSNlg2fgI/AAAAAAAAGrs/tkRzZbO0mCE/s1600-h/LINEA+NO+IDENT+RUSOS.jpg)
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/S0dSNlg2fgI/AAAAAAAAGrs/tkRzZbO0mCE/s1600-h/LINEA+NO+IDENT+RUSOS.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/S0dSNlg2fgI/AAAAAAAAGrs/tkRzZbO0mCE/s1600-h/LINEA+NO+IDENT+RUSOS.jpg)

Thanks Massimo,it?s a great image.You?re right,the P-40 looks very dark;and the Spitfire was repainted as it looks like it has just only one colour on the upper side and the demarcation line between colours is a little bit lower.Greetings.

Martin

Hi Martin,
maybe AMT-12?
Massimo

The P-40N? Yes,it could be recently applied AMT-12 but the colour looks too dark,original Olive Drab perhaps? The Spitfire could be AMT-4 over AMT-7.Greetings.

Martin

What do you make of this? Looks like a very attractive I-16 type 5, found on ebay.de today. I wonder what
colour(s) the fin/rudder and cowling were (maybe the elevators, too?)?

(http://s1.postimage.org/vZ09S.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxvZ09S)

Some other interesting-looking I-16's in the photo too!

John

Nice image, John.
I think that the first I-16 has AII livery with black nose; other I-16s look to have a lighter cowling, possibly A-19 as MiGs.
On the left side, the UTI-4 could have black nose and stripe over a light (grey or silver) background.
Any ideas?
Massimo

Hi John and Massimo,  :)

If that I-16 remained in its original 1935-1936 colours (black nose would suggest this case), than use old pre 1937 "Zashtitniy" Akan 363 and "blue-gray" Akan 371.

Acording to Akanihin, begining of use of AII Z (green) was in June 1937.  At that time black noses were out of the fashion and silver was the last hit.  Late Type 5 with fixed windshield were painted in overall silver - John has a nice e-bay photo (his favourite I-16) of a silver I-16.

Anyway, I wouldn't use AII Green for upper surfaces of I-16 Type 5 with enclosed cockpit and black nose.

Cheers,
KL

Thanks, KL - that's very interesting (I need a lot more Akan paints...)! What do you think about the apparently dark colour of the fin and rudder? Would dark blue be possible? Black, maybe? Thanks again!

(One more thing - is it safe to assume that an I-16 with the black cowling would also have the early wing structure - fewer wing ribs with wider spacing? The Amodel I-16 type 5/6 has the later wing structure, as of course do the ICM I-16 kits, but this could be modified with some work, or even just sanded down - the ribs aren't always so obvious that they are needed in 1/72 scale!)

(Another thing - based on your thread about I-15bis underside colours at Scalemodels.ru, couldn't the correct colour for I-16's built before 1937 (or even later) possibly be aluminum instead of blue?)
http://scalemodels.ru/modules/forum/viewtopic_t_20208.html

John

Mostly already seen photos, but of good quality...
http://ww2-aircraft.com/photogallery.html

A rather interesting album...

http://waralbum.ru/category/weapons/aircrafts/russian_aircrafts/

Very, very interesting.
This Yak-1 looks to have its undersurface of two different colors.

http://waralbum.ru/6264/
(http://waralbum.ru/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/20091227_yak1b.c3q1bbicli0c44cogcs0k8cks)

Massimo

What do you think of this I-153, found on ebay.de:

(http://s3.postimage.org/xJPU0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqxJPU0)

John

Hi John,
I'm still wondering why this I-153, as most of those seen, looks to have a much lighter shade of green than the I-15bis. Who knows about undersurfaces... I think blue.
Massimo

Hi Massimo! :) I'm also curious about the pale-coloured stripes on the base of the fin and the rear fuselage. Regardless, it's a beautiful-looking aircraft, and appears to be in undamaged condition!

John

Hi John,
if it was a MiG-3, I would think that they striped away the external fabric layer, but I-153's rear fuselage should show the void inside , not any wood. In other words, they could be some sort of marks, maybe made by adhesive tape.
Massimo

Here are some good-resolution LaGG-3 images from today's dig through ebay.de; the first two are modelbuilding reference quality and are both of the same aircraft, I believe a series 35. I haven't cropped or otherwise altered these; I present them exactly as I found them. I wonder what colour the identification number is - note the contrast with the red star:

(http://s4.postimage.org/gBnGi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVgBnGi)

(http://s2.postimage.org/GZFwi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsGZFwi)

On this one, no markings are visible, unfortunately, but if you enlarge it, you can see the aircraft was ski-equipped - note the tail skid:

(http://s2.postimage.org/GZI0r.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsGZI0r)

John

Hi John, :)
thank you for sharing these images.
All the photos show a tail ski. I suppose that the plane is the same one, photographed in different time.
I would guess that the number is light blue.
It's unclear if the plane had skis on the main landing gear too.
Massimo

How about the camouflage on this I-16, from Scalemodels.ru:
http://s2.postimage.org/mb39-03db6556aab793662f05f0fc6762f25c.jpg

John

Hi John,
I can't visualize it. Maybe, should I subscribe to Postimage?
Massimo

That's strange - the link in my previous post works okay when I try it. Here, try this:

(http://s2.postimage.org/3zHyS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts3zHyS)

I think the camouflage in the photo might be one of the experimental patterns as described in Orlov's M-Hobby articles.

John

John,thanks for all the photos you?ve been sharing with us these days.
Regarding the I-16 image,it?s just wonderful.At least to me,it looks like the dark blotches are fresh black paint.
These is what looks like a Type 29 in very worn winter finish (also from scalemodels.ru):
http://img534.imageshack.us/my.php?image=163ir.jpg
Greetings.

Martin

Hi John, :)
photo was recently posted on AIF forum at airforce.ru.  Original photo was taken in 1943 in midlle Asia.  Forum members identified plane as I-16 Type 29.  It was also noted that plane's back is square, probably from UTI-4.

All this means that this plane can't be related to 1940 camouflage tests.

Cheers,
KL

Hi John, Konstantin and Martin.
Really a good image. I am wondering if the plane has black green camo, with only some green repainting, or there is a third color in the camouflage.
The image of the type 29 is great too. It looks nearly as if they are washing the white paint off.
Massimo.

I think that it?s a third colour:black paint or another shade of green.Both possibilities should be recently applied colours because they have a different shine in comparison with the camouflage colour,which looks worn.Greetings.

Martin

Thanks, Konstantin! I notice that the image has an overprint in Cyrillic (4 or 5 letters). Do you know the origin of the photo before it was posted on the Russian forums, or the meaning of the overprint? It reminds me of the kind of thing sellers occasionally do on ebay.de to discourage people from copying and saving the images. Is there an ebay.ru where such photos might be found? Thank you again!

John

Owner of those two photos is a collector known as "Petrovich". Watermark is suposed to prevent unauthorized use of photos.

there isn't (yet) ebay.ru, but people sell and buy historic photos on auction forums.  You have to understand that photography in Soviet Union wasn't anything like photography in Germany in thirties or forties.  Airplane photos were rarity in private photo albums - old photos are mostly portrets.

Check following for airplanes:
http://forum.blockhaus.ru/index.php?s=06b34e4ec854ddef22bc296eac78e3ed&showtopic=5136
http://forums-su.com/viewtopic.php?f=194&t=175481&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
http://sammler.ru/index.php?showtopic=63360

Portrets and biographies are sometimes interesting:  R-5, SB and Pe-2 pilot Polina Alekseevna Barbotko
http://sammler.ru/index.php?showtopic=66235&st=0&#entry763384

Cheers,
KL

KL, thank you for that information, but THANK YOU VERY MUCH for those links!!!  :o
I've only checked the first page on each of them, but already I've found and saved some amazing new images! I can see I'll be spending a lot of time looking through them - these sites are definitely worth looking at, and bookmarking! Thank you again!

John

Here's a photo of a Yak-1 from an unusual angle, which shows some interesting details; I just found this on ebay.de a couple of days ago:

(http://s1.postimage.org/LjHSJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxLjHSJ)

John

Hi John,
I'm surprised that the plane is nearly intact. It looks a street on the side of a hill, and I don't see traces on the ground. Do you?
Massimo

It reminds me of another photo of a Yak-1 (if I remember correctly) in the same position which I think I saw on avia-n-aero. When I get home I'll check to see if I saved it, and I'll post it for comparison if I can find it. It might be the same aircraft, photographed from a different direction.

John

Aha! I found it on avia-n-aero - it does seem to be the same aircraft! Note the fence made of tree branches in the background, and the way only some (not all) of the panels on top of the cowling are missing; also the fuselage number, while not completely clear on both sides, is partially visible if you increase the brightness of the images. It appears to be 23 or perhaps 28:

(http://s2.postimage.org/HEDxi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsHEDxi)

John

Hi John,
but how did it arrive there? From the sky? It looks intact...
Massimo

I suppose we will never know the answer to that question. In the first photo, it can be seen that the soil behind the aircraft is disturbed, as if it slid along the ground, or was pulled somehow, but this disturbed area doesn't quite seem to match the shape of the underside of the aircraft. I can only guess that the aircraft made a forced landing, slid along the ground to the edge of the pit (or whatever the lower area is), and then toppled down the side of the pit. The pilot must have had some very anxious moments at that point, as if just trying to avoid crashing wasn't already too frightening! But who knows? Maybe someone decided to dig a pit and bury the aircraft for some unknown reason - maybe somewhere the relics of a Yak-1 are buried, waiting for someone to identify the location and dig up what remains.  ::) I know, it's a crazy idea...

What I really like, though, is that here again we have multiple photos (two, anyway) of one aircraft, apparently taken at different times by different people. It's wonderful - who knows what we might find next!  :D

John

Hi Massimo & John,

it is visible on both photos that the plane was pushed away from the road.  It's not a highway, but it is a road - you may notice that advancing German infantry is using the same road (horse drawn cart, bicycle, foot soldiers).

Photos of an I-16 type 29 by the road were posted recently on scalemodels.ru.  There are photos showing MiG-3 by the road ? and all those planes has extended undercarriage and no evidence of forced landing (like bent propeller blades).

The explanation is simple:  even before the German attack, new fighter planes were sent to the Western military district units by train.  When relatively close to the airfield, planes were unloaded from trains and then dragged along (dirt) roads to airfields.
German attack caused a complete chaos on the Soviet side.  Among other things the transportation system was more or less paralyzed.  Many planes were abandoned on trains or on railway stations.  Some were abandoned along roads.  And that is what we see on those e-bay photos - abandoned planes.

Cheers,
KL

Hi Konstantin,
this looks convincing. It looks a good idea for a diorama. Pity that soldiers are available forthemost in 1/35, it's difficult to find suitable figures in 1/72.
Massimo

Thanks, KL! Also, thank you for clarifying the download procedure for the I-15bis technical manuals in the other thread! For whatever reason, I didn't have to unclick the toolbar offer - somehow it worked for me pretty much as I described it. Regardless, I hope Massimo (and others) can access it now!

John

Hi Konstantin,
thank you. I've downloaded it . It took more than one hour for the second file, my connection is slow.
Massimo

Hi guys,

just found this page:
http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/drabkin_ay3/ill.html

Some pics are not very useful but who knows you may find a gem.
Here's mine; at about two thirds of the page there's a pic of Lagg-3 / La-5 being built in Zavoda 21.
Looking at the pic I'm wondering about Pilawskii's AII green!!
Look at the contrast between the black and the other color.
Who knows maybe EP is right after all :-))

All the best.

Jean

Thanks Jean for the link,there?re many interesting photos.Greetings.

Martin

A good site - thanks, Jean! There are some interesting profiles at the end of the page. Also, I noticed that you can go right through all of the images without clicking your mouse by using the left and right cursor arrow keys.

John

Hi,
I've received this from Hunter19. The site is an historic Russian one.


Unfortunately my connection is too slow. Would anyone have a look and let us know about this video?
Massimo

Hi Jean,
this photo is interesting, but not new. There is some difficulty to interpretate it, but take in mind that the plane could be not completely painted and the light parts could be the yellow putty utilized for the fabric, or fresh and strongly-reflective paint.
According to some sources, green was painted after black.
There are cases, particularly of photos of Yaks, where the (supposed) green appears very light. This is yet unexplained.
Massimo

@ Massimo
Thanks for the infos but I was kidding about E.P. AII green.

All the best.

Jean

Another pic for the "banded 21" Lagg-3 here:
http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=22587&d=1265811961

Jean

Check out this sweet Mig-3 from avia-n-aero.ru......

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/coa/_files/photogallery/252274BEEF498E08B4.jpg

Thanks Warhawk,it?s a very good photo,the details of this Mig-3 can be seen very clearly.Greetings.

Martin

Very clear image indeed!
Massimo

That is a very interesting collection of pictures!
As to the one in question, the aircraft pretty clearly is an LaGG-3, unless they have thrust a "3" onto the production line behind a "5" for some unknown reason!  I know E.P. is not exactly the most popular character around here, and for good reason based on his insulting, demeaning comments.  But his behavior, or one's opinion of him should not impact an objective assessment of the questions surrounding the colors we're talking about.  Having played-around a bit with the AKAN paints I have, to my eye, they cannot be made to represent the contrast I routinely see in pictures like this one.  Furthermore, I don't think lightening due to sun exposure or weathering sufficiently explains this lack of contrast, otherwise, I would expect to see more variation in contrast in pictures of aircraft fresh from the factory, like presentation airplanes, or in production-line photos like this one.

Hi Greg,


To tell the truth, I have the doubt that some shades that I see on my chips could be too dark for my perception, so I would use some lightened shade.
But about judging shades from photos, please have a look to this:

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/57/white57f1.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/57/white57f5.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/57/white57f8r.jpg)

(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/lagg3/57/white57f6.jpg)


They are all of Finnish origin, and all of the same plane. Confusing, isn't it?

Massimo

Pretty confusing Massimo,these photos shows how wrong we could be,trying to make an interpretation of a colour scheme from just one photo.In the last three pictures,the Lagg is the same place and the colour shades are not the same!!!
Greetings.

Martin

Hi Martin,
we could add that the blue under the nose and inner part of wings looks much darker than the one on the gear doors, legs and rear fuselage (within the same photo).
Massimo

Hi,
there are three color photos of SB and I-16 in the update of June 8 and 16

http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/ (http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/)

Massimo

http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/ (http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/)

Postwar Spanish SB.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/TCjUIW1y9EI/AAAAAAAAHS0/i15c2gCdKpI/s400/SB-2+EDA+SINISTRADO.JPG)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/TCjUH9COZwI/AAAAAAAAHSs/zMLl70grg08/s400/SB-2+20W+11+A%C3%91OS+40+DAVID+SIGUENZA.png)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/TCjUHZv6_AI/AAAAAAAAHSk/VS7rJ1S8ynk/s400/SB-2+CABINA+LOS+LLANOS+AZAOLA+REYES.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/TCjUHFsxXnI/AAAAAAAAHSc/vESb9jTmVnM/s400/SB-2+13+REGIMIENTO+LOS+LLANOS+AZAOLA+REYES.png)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2BBc6-JDVWY/TCjUGuhQaFI/AAAAAAAAHSU/-0RVa4QWtIE/s400/SB-2+TRECE+REGIMIENTO+PRINCIPIOS+40+AZAOLA+REYES.jpg)

Massimo

Hi Massimo,
thanks for the link and interesting photos!

First SB isn't a post war plane.  It's the first SB captured by Nationalists in February 1937 near Motril, SE Spain.  It was used by Nationalists through the civil war as a recce plane.
This plane is easily recognized by its camouflage scheme (combination of republican "sand" colour and nationalists green mottles) and "tiles" covering the openings for twin Shkas machine guns.

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/sb2vb9.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/gx21ayXi-d41b620ef95c1ecc2fdf27d39e.jpg)

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/Posted%20in%20forums/Pq1Qc2A9-d41b620ef95c1ecc2fdf27d39e.jpg)

Cheers,
KL

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the information and drawing.
So, I suppose that the planes of the following photos had Luftwaffe-style camouflage.
I suppose that it was not standardized, I see the rudders in different colors in the photo of 3 flying planes.
Do you know if any profile of these planes is available, please?
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
There is a text about Nationalist?s SB bombers and post SCW SB in one of ?Mir Aviatsiyi? issues from 2005.  Author of the text is Alesandro Vereira ? he was a member of the old ?Modeling the planes of VVS? forum.  Dravings I posted earlier are from this text.

Motril SB is interesting for and your Republican colours table:  It shows that SB bombers were repainted as soon as they arrived in Spain and that they were painted with Spanish colours.  That ?sand? or ?ochre? colour can not be a Soviet colour.  In my opinion all colours on Isaak Montoya?s fragments that aren?t factory applied, are of the Spanish origin and not Soviet.

Profiles of the ?Motril SB? are also available at http://basilzolotov.com/tag/sb/


(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sb-20w1-isp-r-x.png)

(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/sb-20w1-isp-l-x.png)

This is the same "Motril SB", captured in February 1937, but in ?German Style? camouflage in 1939.  Other SBs captured at the end of Civil War were painted the same way in 1939-40.

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the answer, the link is highly recommandable, about 15 good profiles of SB and many other ones of other planes. I have already seen those 3 profiles of MiG-3 on a Russian magazine.

About the fragments of Montoya... it's possible that those colors are Spanish, but I think that only the lighter green of the SB was. If SB was painted light grey or silver outside , the layer should be visible in chipped parts  between the zinc chromate and the dark green layer.
About the pieces of I-16, I suppose that they were worn Soviet planes, and it's easy that they were repainted to delete the markings before delivery.
Of course, when we speak of brown and ochre, of course they were Spanish colors.
Besides, it's likely that Spanish colors were different between the Republican and Nationalist side. The German-like colors could have been Spanish imitations of German colors.  Do you know if there is any deeper answer to this?
Best regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo, :)


As a matter of fact, there is only a remote possibility that some paints used in Spain were Soviet.  Montoya's fragments are actually a material evidence that the local paints were used.


There is a gray AE-9 layer under dark green paint:  check the photo with Pilawskii's interpretation


All SB bombers and I-16 fighters sent to Spain were brand new, latest models available.  It was a "clandestine" operation, so they probably arrived without any markings.


Olive green was also nonexistent in Soviet VVS.  In 1938 even light blue for undersides was discontinued.


Of course, but Nationalists received more planes, they were better connected with their "allies", and it is more likely that they had received paint from Germany or Italy.  As we can see from posted photos, Nationalists adopted German Camouflage.  Republican SB bombers ended war camouflaged in "RAF style" Green-Brown disruptive scheme

Cheers,
KL

Hi Konstantin,
I see a small part of grey in a zone of shadow, and the note of EP. But if this is an underlying layer of light grey, this means that the yellowish color can't be ALG-1 because I don't see grey interposed between it and the green paints. So it should be a Spanish ochre. If so, It would be a more valuable discover.
Massimo

Hi Massimo,  :)


Yes, "Spanish ochre" would be a spectacular discovery!
But, yellow on Montoya's fragments isn't  the "Spanish ochre" - it's Soviet ALG-1... :(.
Yellow is clearly the first layer, both on green upper surface fragments and on gray undersurface fragments.  Fact that the yellow layer is more resistant to weathering than other colours, also confirms that it is actually a zinc-chromate protective coating.

RWD-13 rudder preserved in France remains the only example of "Spanish yellow"....

Cheers, 8)
KL 

Hi Konstantin,


this is described by Montoya in some forum or mail , or is an interpretation of the photo?
Massimo

Hi Massimo, :)


It is my interpretation!
I may eventually check (or confirm) this with Montoya.

 8) KL

Hi Konstantin,
yes, please check this. Do you write Spanish?
Or eventually, Martin, could you write to Montoya to clarify this? If the yellow layer is over or under the light grey?
It would be interesting to know more on the shade of grey too, I haven't any chip for Ae-8.
Massimo

I. Montoya can read English.  But, in this case it is clear that the yellow layer is under the light gray.  Following fragment (again thanks to I. Montoya) is probably from fuselage undersides:

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/SB%20Colours/PLANXA-PINTURABK-093-Agrayprimer.jpg)

Lower yellow layer is ALG-1 zinc-chromate and the top light gray is AE-9 oil enamel.  No Spanish paints on this fragment - it should be noted that the SB bombers were repainted/camouflaged in Spain to hide them on airfields, not in the air.


AE-8 is silver (or metallic aluminum more precisely) oil enamel.  It was used on series airplanes only in 1939-40.  AE-8 appeared to late for Spanish Civil War!
It's questionable if any series SB bombers were finished in AE-8, all wrecks (that I know) are finished in light gray AE-9.
A DB-3 wing fragment in one Finnish museum is probably painted in AE-8.  I'll try to find photo later.

Cheers,
KL

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the image, it's new for me.
On this, the yellow looks underlying to the grey.
But I see something strange apparently underlying the yellowish layer. There is a brownish layer, then a grey one, and the base metal looks as dark as steel. I would like to know more on this.
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
a couple of useful images of the same wreck (Republican SB BK-93) can be found on the popular "Public Debate" at http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/1948/1948_Albom_Nakrasok.html

(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/1948/bk093-unders-aeh8.jpg)

(http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Research/1948/bk093-strap-aeh8.jpg)

As usual, "Military historian" didn't quote the source (Montoya) and he misidentified the gray colour!  :D

Those two photos show AE-9 used as an interior paint (applied directly on duraluminum) and as an exterior paint (applied over yelow zinc-chromate ALG-1 primer).


It is better to keep this simple:  we see here only original factory applied ALG-1 and AE-9

Light brown is some kind of chemical reaction commonly seen on 60-70 years old ALG-1 samples dug out from mud or ground.  Following is SB fragment from the Aviation Museum Of Southeast Finland in Lappeenranta, Finland:

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3554/3778103883_07bb6b82bc_o.jpg)

This SB was also originaly finished in light gray AE-9 over ALG-1.  It was shut down by Finish fighters in Dec 1939 and the wreck was recoverd from mud approx. 10 years ago.

KL

Konstantin, could this brown colour possibly be the origin of our old "friend" "AII Brown"?  Just throwing a wild theory out, as I'm still mystified as to why "AII Brown" persists in kit instructions and profiles!  Even Gordon and Komissarov's new book on the Il-2 has some late-war arrow profiles in "AII Brown" and green over blue.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Konstantin,

The public monologue, do you mean?


The inside grey looks darker. Maybe there is a base layer of A-14? I supposed that Zinc Chromate was applied directly on metal.


Nice wreck. Is the grey part painted, or natural metal? It's strangely shining after 70 years.

Hi Jason,
Have they written "AII brown", or it's simply dark brown?

Massimo

Massimo, the colour is not identified as "AII Brown", but it is a dark brown similar to the colour associated with that paint.  Is the term "AII Brown" completely an invention?

Regards,

Jason

Dark brown persists on profiles and kits of Soviet WWII planes since the early days of this hobby in 1960-es! Airfix Il-2 and Yak-9 kits, illustrations in ?Profile? series and other period literature all contributed to the creation of a myth.
Most artists rely on existing profiles and information that is available in literature.  If they are not selective with outdated info and unreliable authors, the myth is perpetuated.


?AII Brown? is Pilawskii?s invention.

AII nitro paints were standard exterior camouflage paints for mixed construction planes before summer 1941.  Only three (3) colours were used for this:  green, light blue and silver.

I bought recently ?Barbarossa Victims? (Kopanski, Mushroom series, published in 2001) ? profiles there confirm the above: only green, blue and gray/silver.  No brown, no disruptive camouflage paterns!  Pilawskii should have used this book!!!

In summer 1941 new matt AMT paints were introduced and gloss AII green and AII light blue were discontinued.

Hornat doesn?t mention AII paints at all, only AMT paints!  

The only brown paint used by VVS was gray-brown AMT-1 and that one from 1943-45.


Yes, it was a monologue.  EP?s forum is practically dead, no questions, no answers, no discussions.  Is it a sign of a general lack of interest in this subject?


I have also interpreted interior colour as A-14, but Akanihin, who inspected fragments personally, is saying that it can?t be A-14 and that it is close to AE-9.


My interpretation would be bare dur-aluminium.  In those areas both AE-9 paint and ALG-1 primer are washed away (disappeared).  In light brown areas only AE-9 paint is washed away, ALG-1 primer survived but with modified colour.

KL

Hi Konstantin,
I know his idea of Ae-9, darker than my expectations and similar to what can be seen on the photo of inside. But the inside grey looks darker than on the outside. Could this be an effect of the sun exposure? After the loss of the plane, the inside and outside of the piece should have been preserved in the same way.


This book was a revelation for me. Before this, photos of planes of immediate prewar were nearly absent.


The decay of a forum is always a sad thing. Do you know if some discussion has moved on other forums of English language besides this one?

Massimo

Thank you Konstantin!  Your answers confirm what I thought - AMT-1 was the only brownish colour ever used on Il-2's, and it was actually a greyish-tan to tan colour.  I still wonder where the myth of that dark brown colour originated - from misinterpretations of black and white photographs I suppose, as for example people mistaking a faded AMT-6 Black for dark brown, as may have also happened with the mythical Dark Green on Il-2's.

Regards,

Jason

LaGG-3 from ebay.de - another one that has a light-coloured band on the rear fuselage; when you enlarge the image and increase the brightness, you can see the tail star, but no identification number. Unfortunately the resolution is poor, but I almost believe I see "kill marking" stars around the tail star, near the edge of the fin and rudder, and there also appears to be an inscription ahead of the cockpit, or maybe it's only exhaust stains! The two-colour green/black camouflage can also be seen.

(http://s2.postimage.org/NwPI0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=TsNwPI0)

John

Actually there was another brown paint developed, sometime in 1940, called "tabachnyi" (tobacco). It was tested on several I-16, I-153 and SB-2s together with some other experimental paints (orange, cream...) in an effort to develop new, most effective camouflage. Considering the time frame it must have been nitro-cellulose paint of AII family. Since the new camo scheme was not adopted this paint never made it to mass production and standard application on any type of VVS aircraft.
Cheers,
Mario

Actually there was another brown paint developed, sometime in 1940, called "tabachnyi" (tobacco). It was tested on several I-16, I-153 and SB-2s together with some other experimental paints (orange, cream...) in an effort to develop new, most effective camouflage. Considering the time frame it must have been nitro-cellulose paint of AII family. Since the new camo scheme was not adopted this paint never made it to mass production and standard application on any type of VVS aircraft.
Cheers,
Mario

[/quote]

Thank you, Mario!  I had forgetten about that experimental brown.  Perhaps the existence of this paint contributed to the myth of the brown paint.  Still, how could people take an experimental colour from 1940 and extrapolate that to be a standard paint used throughout the GPW?  And you still see it used in profiles and kit/decal instructions!  I think it's more than time to bury that myth.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason :)
I suppose that the old belief in brown/green camo hasn't nothing to do with scarcely known experimental camouflages. It could be an extrapolation from the British camo, or based on a misunderstandment of faded wrecks with green/brown/grey camo, or on some badly restored planes that were considered as original.
Massimo

That's a great question for certain Mr.Pilawskii! ;)
I read somewhere that in late 60th (?) British authors Green and Svanborough gained some (limited) access to information about VVS camo standards in Soviet Union. This could have been misinterpreted somehow (incomplete, language bareer...?) and "artistic license" ruled ever since. Vakhlamov and Orlov's research published 13+ years ago did not confirm any other standard brown paint but AMT-1. Unfortunatelly it never got audience (language bareer) in the Western hemisphere.
Cheers,
Mario
  

Hi Mario,  :)
By the way, you started to improve an automatic translation of Orlov's work published on Aviakollectia on last november, if I remember well. 
Has the improving work proceeded since then? It would be nice to publish a good translation.
Massimo

Yes, Mario, I'll second that.  I'd love to see any translation(s) of Mr. Orlov's work(s).  Your point is well taken on artistic licence.  You could also call it laziness on the part of some illustrators, who just copy someone else's work without actually looking at photographs.  As an example, there is a semi-famous 37mm-armed Il-2 called "Red 28", after the bort.  I've seen that incorrectly portrayed as an arrow (Okay - that might be a misinterpretation of the photographs), but also as a straight-winger, without the cannons!  Obviously, the artist who portrayed it without the cannons never saw a photograph of the plane in question.  You're probably correct, Massimo, about the dark brown being a misinterpretation of faded wrecks and badly restored planes (which has contributed to bad colour profiles).  You may also be correct, Mario, about Green and Swanborough misinterpreting Soviet camouflage information.

Regards,


Jason

Old habits are hard to change.

In Scale aviation modeler for august 2010 there's an ad for Airfix showing a 1/72 Yak-9D with green/brown camo  :o
One's is wondering what was the research done for the kit  :-\

Jean

Colour photo of Yak-3; don't know if it's original, "colorized", or maybe even the result of some kind of CGI/Photoshop shenanigans - I found it on Scalemodels.ru:

(http://s4.postimage.org/oWber.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVoWber)

John

Hi John,
it gives the idea to be a screenshoot from some good flight simulator
Massimo

Jean, unfortunately I'm sure it was the same kind of research that is done with too many Soviet kits - they base their colours off of outdated/incorrect colour profiles without doing any further research.  So the old myths keep being perpetuated.

Regards,

Jason

Some details of the I-153, from scalemodels.ru:

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Tsv0lKJ

This was in a recent post in the pinned I-153 thread; as nearly as I can understand from the Babel Fish translation of the related text in the post, it seems to have something to do with radio installation.

John

Thank you John, for the link!  As a matter of fact, I'm waiting on the Amodel I-153 kit.  How similar is this to the old Heller kit (is it the same)?  The same inaccuracies (or new ones)?  I'm familiar with Amodel in general, so I know the kits can be a little rough, although they seem to be accurate enough.  I don't mind doing a little bit of work, as long as I wind up with a kit that actually looks like the aeroplane it's meant to represent.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,
There was a page on Hobbyvista site. If I remember well, it said that it was a bit better than Heller as cowling, wingtips and closed wheel bays.
Massimo

Thank you, Massimo!  I remember that page, but it disappeared when the site went down, and isn't available on the restored site (at least I haven't found it).  Did anyone happen to preserve that page - I'd love to see it.

Regards,

Jason

Here's the I-153 article:
http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Modeling/Polikarpov/I-153/72nd_Comparison/index.php

All that was lost on the hobbyvista site was the forum postings prior to a certain date; all of the articles, model pages, and other documents are still there.

John

Thank you very much, John!  That is the very article I was looking for (evidently not hard enough).

Regards,

Jason

Some recent images from ebay.de and elsewhere:

A Yak-1 showing some detail; no numbers visible, unfortunately:

(http://s3.postimage.org/egYIJ.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sz2ja9ac/)

MiG-3; some details visible; I think I've seen other photos of the same aircraft (number "24" on tail) before:

(http://s2.postimage.org/KiIRS.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2m09py25g/)

Another MiG-3, this one under construction or repair:

(http://s1.postimage.org/eYGsr.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/udsch45g/)

An Il-2, showing the reinforcing strip added to the rear fuselage of some early aircraft:

(http://s4.postimage.org/GUfHi.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2f3fer7j8/)

Good clear nose shot - you can even read the serial number on the landing gear fairing:

(http://s3.postimage.org/ehJ6r.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/szxyhuo4/)

Same Il-2, from the side:

(http://s4.postimage.org/GUYAS.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2f496fgf8/)

Two photos of another Il-2 with an unusual tail number:

(http://s4.postimage.org/GVk29.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2f4o29kv8/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/GVBv9.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2f4zn10bo/)

I-16 - good clear side view with bort No. visible:

(http://s3.postimage.org/eiUWJ.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/t1bkm9hg/)

A type 5 with good focus and resolution; by brightening it a bit, the tail number is visible as "8":

(http://s4.postimage.org/GWNkr.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2f6d95f50/)

An I-16 with two-colour upper surface camouflage; too bad no number is visible:

(http://s2.postimage.org/K9pHi.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lph2ni3o/)

I thought this one was interesting becasue of the tail number ("2", I think) and also the location of the star under the wing tip:

(http://s2.postimage.org/K9W79.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lq2kn0is/)

Here's an image from Scalemodels.ru; it was described as wreckage from an I-16; the colours of the star and also the background colour (AE-9?) are visible:

(http://s2.postimage.org/Dwm2S.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/288ef1zs4/)

John

Hi John,
thank you for sharing the images.
I like the camouflaged I-16, in particular; I thinkl that it had not number, the only place in fuselage where a number of usual size could be is occupied by a star.

The image of the wreckage of I-16 is particularly interesting; so, it looks that the fabric-covered parts were painted grey (instead of silver as on I-153s). Who knows if it was oil paint , nitro or what else?
Massimo

Thanks John for these images.
One thing I?ve noticed is that I-16,tail number 8,is a Type 5 but with a "T" shaped lower intake as in the Type 10s.
Greetings.

Martin

Hi Massimo,  :)




We have already discussed pre-1940 underside colours at: http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=783.45

From 1937 to mid-1940 silver and gray were standard undersides colours!!!  Fabric covered surfaces were painted with nitro lacquers AII Gray or AII Al (aluminium).  Metal surfaces were painted with gray oil enamel AE-9.  Silver oil enamel AE-8 appeared in late 1938, but from ?photographic evidence?, it looks that it was only in limited use before the GPW.

Although these facts have been known for more than a decade (Vahlamov and Orlov text in 1996 M-Hobby), modelers, even in Russia, are reluctant to accept silver/gray for I-16 and I-15bis undersides.


(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/736/22443351tj4.jpg)

One evidence more ? German colour photo:

(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm13/klesnikov/WWII%20VVS%20aircraft%20-%20colour%20photos/0095.jpg)

Question ;): when are you going to remove AII Blue from the 1937-1940 part of the ?Provisional table of colors?  ? ???

Hi John, :)

I-16 relic details from Ilya Prokofyev files http://soldat.ru/files/f/00000577.doc  

?   I-16 Type 24, Zavod 21 serial No 24Р21855
?   Pilot Pavel Petrovich Titov, 4th squadron of the 5th IAP, 61st Brigade VVS KBF
?   Shot down on August 21, 1941, Leningrad Front
?   Wreck dug out from mud in 2003.

Hope this will help.

Cheers,
KL

Hi Martin! Yes, I noticed the same thing on the cowling of the I-16 type 5. I guess it's another example of how Russian aircraft designs "evolved" without clear definition of where one series or type ends and the next one begins. And also another warning not to take anything for granted! ;)

John

Hi Konstantin! Thank you for that information - that explains the link to soldat.ru in the same post where I found the image of the I-16 wreckage. Maybe I should have opened it - I might have learned more, or at least found more images.

From your comments regarding underside colours, it seems safe, then, to use an approximate match for AE-9 (or AII Grey) and AII Aluminum (depending on whether the painted surface is metal or fabric) on the undersides of the I-15bis and early versions of the I-16? Is it the same thing for I-153's with green upper surfaces?

Thanks!

John

Hi Konstantin, :)
no doubt, the exam of photos and relics of I-15bis and I-153  show the use of grey and silver in this way, but at present time we have not found photographic evidence of two colors on the undersides of I-16s. In one of the photos of I-15bis, if I remember well, a grey repainting was visible on fabric too, so it was not impossible to use grey paint over these surfaces.
The photo from Scalemodels looks grey to my eye, eventually we (or someone reading Russian) can look for the owner that saw the relic and can answer on what the color was.

About the photo with German soldiers, it was colorized, possibly from a bw original.
I have colorized many images by using photoshop, and recognize the wide surfaces with uniform hue colors.
So it is not a proof of the color of the plane.



Some day I'll do it, and reorganize the page with schemes and photos. But at present time I am not fully convinced that what was found on Polikarpovs is valid for all types.

Massimo :)

Hi Massimo,
I said many times (and will maintain it) that "photographic evidence" is the least reliable portion of any color research.
Spending too much time on it will surely bring us back to "Pilawskii's camp", and that would be a shame.
Bellow is an excerpt from Orlov's response to "The Great Pilawskii's Albom Nakrasok Rebuttal" relevant to this matter (see his site):

In order to analyze the black-and-white photographs, one MUST KNOW the type of light-sensitive layer of film on which the picture was taken. For example, Br-Ag film without enhanced sensitivity has the upper limit of the spectral sensitivity in about 540 nanometers i.e. the spectrum of the yellow-green to red colors will be represented (on the photo paper copy) in very dark shades of gray while visually dark purple color with appear in the picture as very bright. These films as well as any photo paper can be developed under red light.

With the introduction of optical sensitizers into photo emulsion we can "bump up" the upper limit of spectral sensitivity. In the image taken with such a film red color will appear already light.
Besides the curve of spectral sensitivity is not monotone since it has its peaks and valleys as well as nearly horizontal segments. For example, isopanchromatic film has roughly the same spectral sensitivity in the region from blue to red colors i.e. in such a film blue, yellow-green and red colors will have approximately the same brightness ( A brief photographic guide, Goskinoizdat M. (not the NKVD!!!) 1952, p. 161).

I also discussed this with a color scientist. If the above is missing you must have, as an utmost minimum, the original, first generation of prints. Not God knows how many times reprinted, retouched, reformatted copies!
For decades till today, kit manufacturers, publishers, artists and some "experts" depicted undersides of several Japanese Navy AF multi-engine types such as G4M1 Betty, J1N1 Irving, P1Y1 Frances as "gray". That's how it looks in B&W pix and besides it was a common knowledge that IJNAF aircraft were gray on the bottom surfaces! Documentary and relic research has proven that they (undersides) were unpainted natural metal.
What I'm trying to say is that thorough knowledge of relevant paint/camo standards is the crucial starting point.
People still don't seem to believe (including yourself, with all due respect) that VVS had pretty well developed systems that were controlled and followed. For a very simple reason-logistics!
Therefore it's pointless to discuss (and look for photographic evidence) of AII blue on any VVS aircraft prior to 1940. It doesn't say that this paint didn't exist already and was even test-applied! Unless TU (tekhnicheskyi uslovya) were released and confirmed however large-scale (standard) painting simply did not occur! To support this with another example look at the case of AMT-1 brown. This paint was developed in 1941 (maybe even earlier) but not used until 1943.
Cheers,
Mario

Hi Konstantin, :)


I don't think that photographic evidence is so useless. In photos, one can always see if the idea that two surfaces are painted with the same colors is sustainable or not. Besides, metallic colors create different shadows and reflexes than grey. So, it's impossible to distinguish grey from light blue, but it's possible (at least on curved surfaces) distinguish silver from grey.

If I remember well, the table in the text of Orlov gives silver for all undersurfaces, but photos have allowed to state that, on (many, perhaps all) I-15bis and I-153, the metallic surfaces were grey while the fabric surfaces were silverish. So I wouldn't say that photos are unuseful. There is only to state if the same thing is valid for I-16s too, and photos of wrecks of I-16 are all but rare.

Another case where official standards are not confirmed by photos is the grey-grey camo for Il-2 and 10. Unless differently proved, I would say that the relative template was never put in practise.

About Japanese planes, it could be the same thing of brown-green camo on Soviet planes; however, for what I know, the grey color did exist on Japanese planes, but not on all.

About AMT-1, I am not so sure that it was not applied. Photos of non-standard camouflages with three shades did exist in 1941 and 1942 too, and AMT-1 is a candidate for the lighter shade. Of course, they could have mixed other colors too.

Regards
Massimo :)

Now here's a neat color photo (appears authentic, not colorized)

(http://basik.ru/images/third_reich_part_1/08.jpg)
http://basik.ru/images/third_reich_part_1/08.jpg

Hi,
look at this Il-2 colors!

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=21&parent_id=0&photo_id=6559&countdisplay=&start=40 (http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/photo.php?category_id=21&parent_id=0&photo_id=6559&countdisplay=&start=40)
Massimo

Interesting picture of a Shturmovik, Massimo!  I've noticed that some of those very early IL-2's, where it looks like the black may have just been painted over the prewar green, have some rather interesting patterns.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason,
this looks likely. Somewhat faded A-19f and fresh A-12 black seem a likely interpretation of this highly contrasted scheme.
Regards
Massimo

Warning - This post contains an image of a damaged MiG-3 which may be disturbing to some! Viewer discretion is advised! :P

Just joking!!! Here's a really good photo with excellent resolution which I found on ebay.de:

(http://s3.postimage.org/2mttot3es/Mi_G_3_56.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2mttot3es/)

In it, the variation between paint colours on metal (A-19) and wood/fabric (AII Z) can be seen quite well; also some detail around the engine and wing flap areas. I also like the clearly-visible tail number and the rib/fabric detail on the rudder. It's unfortunate that the "DEMO" overprint is stamped right on the cockpit area.

John

Hi John,
good image.
The plane on the background looks a MiG-1, it features different landing gear door shape.
Regards
Massimo

R-5 and R-10
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R9c7QXXPBRQ/TZH68uk00JI/AAAAAAAAIWM/eky_yWIsSMY/s1600/FRENTE%2BRUSO%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR-5%2BFACTORIA.jpg (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-R9c7QXXPBRQ/TZH68uk00JI/AAAAAAAAIWM/eky_yWIsSMY/s1600/FRENTE%2BRUSO%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR-5%2BFACTORIA.jpg)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PaYjqElX0L4/TZH68JIXBxI/AAAAAAAAIWE/bY-omBuaqVE/s1600/FRENTE%2BRUSO%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR5%2B6%2B06-1941.jpg (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PaYjqElX0L4/TZH68JIXBxI/AAAAAAAAIWE/bY-omBuaqVE/s1600/FRENTE%2BRUSO%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR5%2B6%2B06-1941.jpg)
Some Spanish I-15, SB, RZ
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fRTL2oWl2CQ/TZH679QuRFI/AAAAAAAAIV8/nr1k5CWnfFE/s1600/LC%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR-5%2BRR-008%2BEL%2BCARMOLI%2BINSTRUCTORES%2BESPA%25C3%2591OLES.jpg (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fRTL2oWl2CQ/TZH679QuRFI/AAAAAAAAIV8/nr1k5CWnfFE/s1600/LC%2BPOLIKARPOV%2BR-5%2BRR-008%2BEL%2BCARMOLI%2BINSTRUCTORES%2BESPA%25C3%2591OLES.jpg)
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dzU028vrKPs/TZBsEaEMqOI/AAAAAAAAIV0/ywlG5-Ma_w0/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BY%2BNATACHA%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-dzU028vrKPs/TZBsEaEMqOI/AAAAAAAAIV0/ywlG5-Ma_w0/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BY%2BNATACHA%2BCOPIA.JPG)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-APU2YSVfhfc/TZBsEMvlxkI/AAAAAAAAIVs/JCo-F6RP8Dg/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-APU2YSVfhfc/TZBsEMvlxkI/AAAAAAAAIVs/JCo-F6RP8Dg/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VXBFuNydEKE/TZBsDuyulmI/AAAAAAAAIVk/AUs7lm3JYmo/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BHANGAR%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VXBFuNydEKE/TZBsDuyulmI/AAAAAAAAIVk/AUs7lm3JYmo/s1600/I-15%2BCA-030%2BHANGAR%2BCOPIA.JPG)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lqd194xt7ys/TZBsDaifkEI/AAAAAAAAIVc/awUHzhIPptE/s1600/SB-2%2B34%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Lqd194xt7ys/TZBsDaifkEI/AAAAAAAAIVc/awUHzhIPptE/s1600/SB-2%2B34%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG)


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EevwvjiSC9s/TZBsDEi6LyI/AAAAAAAAIVU/VnoRDC7IC8o/s1600/SB-2%2B34%2BSOLDADO%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EevwvjiSC9s/TZBsDEi6LyI/AAAAAAAAIVU/VnoRDC7IC8o/s1600/SB-2%2B34%2BSOLDADO%2BLEGION%2BCONDOR%2BCOPIA.JPG)

Massimo

Good images - thanks, Massimo! :)

John

Thanks Massimo for sharing these great images.Greetings.

Martin

Hi Martin,
some further ones:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W__0SnYPoB0/TZWa_7to3EI/AAAAAAAAIYU/Vpk57H-Do9U/s1600/AVIADORES_DE_LA_REPUBLICA_CARTEL.JPG (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W__0SnYPoB0/TZWa_7to3EI/AAAAAAAAIYU/Vpk57H-Do9U/s1600/AVIADORES_DE_LA_REPUBLICA_CARTEL.JPG)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ckuaP9T5lBI/TZWa_YecoFI/AAAAAAAAIX8/_2GWE9L8XX4/s1600/LC%2BSB-2%2B9%2BCOPIA.JPG (http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ckuaP9T5lBI/TZWa_YecoFI/AAAAAAAAIX8/_2GWE9L8XX4/s1600/LC%2BSB-2%2B9%2BCOPIA.JPG)

Regards
Massimo

Here is much very good and interesting photos.
Red Army 1922-1941гг / VVS 1922-41гг

R-1, R-5, U-2, ANT-25, ANT-31, PS-40 and many others

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/viktor3951/view/388467/?page=1

Excellent site - thanks, Anatoliy! I found a great photo of an R-5, which is an aircraft I like very much:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/viktor3951/view/394411/?page=2

Do you have any news about the South Front 1/72 R-5, by the way? Thanks again!

John

Really good photos, thank you for sharing the link. I've downloaded many of them.
Regards
Massimo

Photo site with 3104 images from ebay.de; mostly VVS aircraft with a few Luftwaffe mixed in:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/album/98690/?&p=116,

John

Hi,
what type of plane is this dotted one? A DB-3, maybe?

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/view/344541?page=117 (http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/view/344541?page=117)

Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,

A DB-3M for sure.

Cheers,

AaCee

Thank you AaCee. The painting with small dots seems an interesting livery, even if not very disruptive.
Regards
Massimo

Good head-on detail photo of MiG-3 nose and wing; I was lucky to find this one - the seller didn't know what it was, and titled it as a Spitfire or Hurricane:
(http://s2.postimage.org/1c38rj8h0/Mi_G_3_70b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1c38rj8h0/)

John

Two really sharp I-16 photos:

(http://s1.postimage.org/yrjxnuv8/I_16_96.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yrjxnuv8/)

(http://s2.postimage.org/1dphu65us/I_16_97.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1dphu65us/)


A Yak-1:

(http://s1.postimage.org/yrow9wck/Yak_1_13.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/yrow9wck/)


John

Type 18?

Yes Bert,Type 18 and following Types if the right side access door is closed.Greetings.

Martin

Another Yak-1:

(http://s4.postimage.org/35ktghiuc/Yak_1_14.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/35ktghiuc/)


A Su-2:

(http://s1.postimage.org/25mc2rv2c/Su_2_18.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/25mc2rv2c/)


John

Possibly useful "under the hood" shot of a MiG-3:

(http://s1.postimage.org/ya1wad50/Mi_G_3_76.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ya1wad50/)

John

Could this be a new photo of the familiar "Za Rodinu" MiG-3? It's different from the three photos shown on Massimo's web page for this aircraft. The focus and resolution are very good:

(http://s3.postimage.org/pzg65zlw/Mi_G_3_80.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/pzg65zlw/)

Link to Massimo's page for comparison:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/zarodinu.html

John

It looks like the same aircraft - look at the dark patch (black) on the tail; it appears the same.

Regards,

Jason

Yes, there's no question that it's the same aircraft; what I meant was, it might be a new and better photo of that aircraft.

John

Hi John and Jason,
yes' it's in better condition than already available photos. The detail of the inside of the cowling panel is noteworthy too.
Regards
Massimo

Hey, guys, check out this photo - pretty good quality...

(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/212217-2/MROM_18_2%23)

Very interesting, thank you for sharing.
The dark color on the tail and rear fuselage is clearly black, but the faded color on the fuselage sides and wings is more ambiguous. Probably faded black.
Regards
Massimo

Thanks, Warhawk - it's always interesting to see colour photos of GPW aircraft, although I assume this photo was taken during Operation Barbarossa.

Here's a (black and white) photo I saved some time ago; I found it yesterday while I was going through my folders looking for I-16 details. It's apparently a type 5 (sliding canopy; guns in the wings only, not the fuselage; teardrop-shaped exhaust outlets in the cowling), and yet it has the T-shaped oil cooler intake as is usually seen on the type 10 and type 17. This is unusual for a type 5, I think; so far, I haven't found any other ones like it, nor have I seen this on any drawings of the type 5:

(http://s3.postimage.org/1v2k7zkzo/I_16_42.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1v2k7zkzo/)

Comments?

John

Hi John,
maybe a repair with a non-original piece, or an example of an intermediate version?
Regards
Massimo

Possibly useful image of an I-153:

(http://s1.postimage.org/113hpgf5w/I_153_119.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/113hpgf5w/)

This was taken near Minsk, in what I like to call "The Valley of the Polikarpovs" - a surprising number of photos have been offered on ebay.de over the years showing wrecked aircraft in this small valley, most of them seeming to be I-153's. Very few closeups like this one, though.

John

Nice photograph, John - it shows nice details of the underwing bomb racks and the wheel wells.  Unfortunately I'm on a Lavochkin kick right now (I've got a LaGG-3, an La-5, and a La-5F all in various stages of completion) so I'll have to put this photo away until I get back to my FrankenChaika (that's the one that has parts from like 5 kits - no exaggeration - all to try and make one reasonably accurate I-153 - ICM where are you?).  Hmmm, "The Valley of the Polikarpovs", wasn't that written by Anton Chekov?

Regards,

Jason

Really a nice image John, thank you for sharing it.
Regards
Massimo

Here's another one from "The Valley"; I don't usually save images of anything but single-engined types; however, I think this one is not only a good photo, it also shows a rarely-seen aircraft. I believe it's a Tupolev USB, the trainer version of the SB 2M-100A; only about 120 were built, according to Gunston's "Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft 1875-1995":

(http://s1.postimage.org/v4sq8g2dn/usb.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v4sq8g2dn/)

John

Here's another photo of the same I-153, from approximately the same position of the person taking the photo, and yet it's obviously a different picture:

(http://s4.postimage.org/47vipulih/I_153_119a.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/47vipulih/)

John

Hi,
there are some color and colorized photos at http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=20 (http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00%3A00%3A00-08%3A00&max-results=20).
The second one is a real color photo of an Il-2 wreck; third, forth and fifth ones are colorized.
Regards
Massimo

Nice images - thanks, Massimo! I find the first one very interesting. The photo was taken in 1967 - ignoring the bright blue paint job on the La-5FN, I wonder what happened to this aircraft afterwards, since there are no remaining La-5-series machines today. Likewise the MiG-3 - where did it disappear to? The existing ones are restorations or replicas.

John

Edit - My mistake (and TJ's, too, in his caption of the photo) - it's not a La-5FN, it's a La-7. Too bad!

Hi John,
those planes are of the museum of Monino. The MIG is the known ugly mockup, while the La-7 is their 27. I am surprised to see it in blue, I thought it was dark grey. Perhaps the photo was manipulated before printing.
Regards
Massimo

Excellent photo showing underside details of I-16 type 29:

(http://s9.postimage.org/blt3lddd7/I_16_124.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/blt3lddd7/)


John

Hi John,
thank you for sharing. Here one can see the correspondance between the inlet and outlet of air of the oil cooler, and the slightly flattened shape of the bay, despite all attempts of soldiers and of the owner to hide them.
Regards
Massimo

From today's posts (Dec.17/11), a Yak-1 which may be of interest:
(http://s8.postimage.org/dollthav5/Yak_1_21.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/dollthav5/)

A Su-2:
(http://s7.postimage.org/ss1fpfvxz/Su_2_23.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ss1fpfvxz/)

A MiG-3:
(http://s8.postimage.org/fs0mew01t/Mi_G_3_88.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fs0mew01t/)

John

Thank you John. The Yak, in particular, would be good to illustrate some technical description.
Regards
Massimo

Here's another photo of that I-16 with the VVS "hen" insignia on the tail, which turned up a few days ago on ebay.de:

(http://s14.postimage.org/tgvezihul/I_16_odd_insignia_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/tgvezihul/)

By the way, this aircraft is included among the options in Begemot's heroic 100 I-16 decal sheet!

John

Here's something not often seen, from Scalemodels.ru, posted by mmoustaf - a German photo of a captured La-5F:

(http://s15.postimage.org/l9hddz6qv/La_5_F_1.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/l9hddz6qv/)

The handwritten caption on the back seems to suggest it's a "Jak 6" - maybe TISO will be interested... ;)

John

Interesting - it apparently crash-landed as evidenced by the bent propeller blades, but they've gotten it back up on its landing gear.  I wonder if that hen on the I-16 is related to the Vicious Chicken of Bristol - perhaps the Vicious Hen of Minsk?

Regards,

Jason

Another photo of MiG-3 "White 564":

(http://s12.postimage.org/k52adwcex/Mi_G_3_94.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/k52adwcex/)


Massimo's page on this aircraft is here:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/3digits.html


John

Thank you John.
Massimo

A good color image of a TB-3and a bw photo of a maculated Li-2/DC-3:
http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=6 (http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2012-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2013-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=6)
Massimo

That TB-3 photo is available on ebay.de right now (March 4/12) if anyone wants to buy it...  ;) I saw it, saved it, and I was going to post it here, but I didn't get time!

John

Some nice soviet Spits here...
http://www.thescale.info/news/publish/russian-spitfires.shtml

Here's a good clear photo of a LaGG-3; not much is visible for markings or camouflage, but it does show some structural and other details:
(http://s18.postimage.org/di10o2x91/La_GG_3_58.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/di10o2x91/)

John

Hi John,
thank you for sharing it.
It looks a very early plane still unpainted. It's strange if the photo is of German source.
Regards
Massimo

Photo of Yak-7B of A.A. Matveev of 29 GvIAP:

(http://s13.postimage.org/doaazl2nn/Yak_1_23.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/doaazl2nn/)


I'm doubtful that this is an original photo, but on the other hand, I've never seen it before. Has anyone else seen it published anywhere?

John

Clear, complete photo of a very early LaGG-3:
(http://s13.postimage.org/f96bssier/La_GG_3_59.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f96bssier/)

John

Hi John,
it's a clear image. Thank you for sharing.
The camo pattern of Laggs is very standardized, and this follows the usual lines.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
I've received this from Oleg:

Check out this nice factory photo...

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/6531139951_a0b4bc170c_n.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16118167@N04/6531139951/sizes/o/in/faves-deckarudo/)

Nice photo! I would say that these are static tests on a plane built in Z.30. It looks an early twoseater with straight wing and black-green camo, about the end of 1942 or the first half of 1943.
Regards
Massimo

German photo of Il-2 two-seater (personally, I haven't seen many of these - most Barbarossa photos seem to be single-seat aircraft):

(http://s10.postimage.org/m4sehm63p/Il_2_65.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/m4sehm63p/)

John

John, it seems that as the war dragged on, the Shturmovik quit being such an object of curiosity (and even humour) and instead became an object of dread.  The number of German photographs of Shturmoviks drops off dramatically after 1941.

Regards,

Jason

Hi John and Jason,
this plane seems of the second half of 1943. It has the camo and marks introduced in August, but not the tall mast introduced in the fall of the same year.
Regards
Massimo

Some nice finds from around...

http://www.forumavia.ru/forum/8/9/3788046170264537798121171695289_all.shtml?topiccount=134
http://albumwar2.com/photo-19391945/597-alex-alelyuhin-in-his-yak-1
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/destirh/view/185492?page=0

Thanks, Warhawk! That first one will take some time to look through, but I'll enjoy every minute!  :D

John

I thought this MiG-3 photo was interesting just because it shows details of the underside of the port wing which are not usually seen, and the focus/resolution is quite good:

(http://s8.postimage.org/5wqloi89d/Mi_G_3_120.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5wqloi89d/)

John

It's clear indeed. Thank you for sharing.
Massimo

Altyn41's photo pages:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/album/98690/?&p=116,

Currently 4242 images, mostly Russian "Barbarossa victim" aircraft from ebay.de and other sources. I still have not found a way to navigate the site page by page - the arrows at the bottom are "greyed out" - perhaps you need to be a registered user for this feature to become active. You can still work through the images one by one, though, if you have a lot of time available. There's a solid run of maybe 75 Il-2 photos which ends at image No. 1663, although many of these are side-view shots of the nose and cockpit area with only a few showing markings, if I remember correctly.

There are also albums which include some excellent, apparently professional, Russian-made photos, although only a few of these show aircraft. This Yak-9 is on page 3 of the 18-12-2012 album;
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/album/194833/

(http://s9.postimage.org/qxk3b5cxn/Yak_9_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qxk3b5cxn/)(http://s7.postimage.org/fxb54flqv/Yak_9_2a.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/fxb54flqv/)

John

PS - To make it a bit easier, here's a link to image 1728, which is where I stopped last night - you can work backwards from there using the thumbnails and left arrow in the top righthand corner of this page:
http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/altyn41/view/307581?page=86

Nise hi-rez pics of a slogan-marked winter Yak from Scalemodels forum

http://pics.livejournal.com/modelist/pic/000kq99k.jpg
http://pics.livejournal.com/modelist/pic/000kppay.jpg

That's one sharp-looking Yak!  It would make a great model.  My knowledge of Yakovlev fighters is not as complete as it should be - anyone know which version this is?

Regards,

Jason

It's Yak-1 (in modern literature known as Yak-1B, or in some Polish publications erronously designated as Yak-1M).

(http://pics.livejournal.com/modelist/pic/000kppay.jpg)

The plane above is very interesting and important - it's the first (or one of the earliest) donated plane!   Donated by kholhoz "Signal of the Revolution" in Saratov Region to major V.I. Shishkin in November 1942.

(http://airaces.narod.ru/all9/shishkn2.jpg)

Tail of this plane is still preserved in Saratov

(http://airaces.narod.ru/all9/shishkn5.jpg)

Partial reconstruction (squadron number is unknown)
(http://basilzolotov.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/yak-1b-shish-x.png)

Thank you for the information, Konstantin!  Interesting how they duplicated the inscription even when it was painted white for winter.  So the inscription was on both sides?

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
the number seems red 1.
(http://pics.livejournal.com/modelist/pic/000kq99k.jpg)
Comparing the photo with the one in the museum, the shape, type and position of the star have been changed. If it's the same plane, it has been completely repainted.
Regards
Massimo

Hi John,
this is a great mine of informations. Many of the photos of Il-2 were new for me. I think to have found even a photo of an Il-2 with arrow wings and integral white finish, the only one I know.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
look at this!
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6000/altyn41.235/0_4c4a6_becbee6d_XXL)

What bizarre camouflage!

Regards,

Jason

Wow.
That's a stunning camo.
Massimo where did you get that one?
Anymore research about it?

Hi,
I had already a photo of it in my page. It is from Sqadron Signal, that dates 1942.
(http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/il2-3sh.jpg)
Unfortunately I can't distinguish any detail that can suggest the factory and the period of production. The damage to the wigtip seems made on a wooden part.
I suppose that the lighter color could be white, remain of a winter camo made by nitro paint.
Regards
Massimo

New photo of "Shotdown Yellow 5" MiG-3:

(http://s1.postimage.org/zey41yoff/Mi_G_3_125.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/zey41yoff/)

Massimo's page on this aircraft:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/mig3/shotdown5.html

John

Hi John,
thank you for the image. It's very strange how uniform looks this plane.
Regards
Massimo

Hi,
what is this?
(http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5108/altyn41.3d7/0_5b38e_cacea718_XL)
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo - it's a Nieman R-10, apparently in some kind of field-applied camouflage, attended by a couple of future HSU's. It looks unfamiliar because the upper fuselage decking between the cockpit and the gunner's position has been cut away. Nice photo, by the way - good clear details of the seat, windscreen, and venturi on the side of the nose. I saved it to My Pictures - thank you!

John

(One oddity I noticed, though, is the small windscreen in the gunner's position; this wasn't a standard feature of the R-10, as far as I can tell from drawings and the few photos I've saved. Maybe it was added to entertain the kids, or it's a special field-modified version of an R-10 for training purposes, perhaps? Gunston's Osprey Encyclopedia makes no mention of any R-10 or KhAI-5 in this configuration, although his book is about 15 years old now. )

Hi John,
this looks likely, it would be interesting to know more on this one.
Regards
Massimo

Possibly useful image of MiG-3 with cockpit structure exposed:
(http://s9.postimage.org/3lyu5c6zf/Mi_G_3_155.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/3lyu5c6zf/)

Two photos of MiG-3 with unusual or incomplete application of bort number on rudder:
(http://s4.postimage.org/67n296qah/Mi_G_3_157.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/67n296qah/)(http://s12.postimage.org/vl096x015/Mi_G_3_157a.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/vl096x015/)

John

Hi John,
these photos are of two rare MiG-1s. Interesting indeed, this worts a profile when I'll resume the MiG page.
Regards
Massimo

Hah - I'm wrong again! MiG-1 it is - I should have looked more closely at the shape of the landing gear doors.  :-[

If it's of any interest, the photo caption from ebay.de says "Orig Foto Kowno Kaunas Feldflugplatz Flugzeug Kennung J?ger Russland Litauen". I hope Musa will pick these up for his MiG-1 page; maybe I'll send him a PM.

Apparently these aircraft are from 31 IAP.

John

Underside view of I-15bis:

(http://s24.postimg.org/52qz5sacx/I_15bis_26.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/52qz5sacx/)

John

Great photo John.
Here the difference between silver fabric surfaces and grey metallic ones is visible. The rear fuselage undersurface looks atipically repainted in grey.
Regards
Massimo

Yes, I noticed the same thing - I wonder what the explanation is for that. Also the lighter-coloured area under the right lower wing.

John

Isn't that underwing area a metal panel where they had flares?

Regards,

Jason

Yes, I read that in another thread and thought of it. It seemed larger than I expected, but maybe that's only because the two Wehrmacht types make it impossible to see how large (or small) it really is.

John

Some nice Su-2 finds on ebay...

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Airplane-Russland-/360619553427
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Airplane-Russland-/360619553487
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Airplane-Russland-/251248998833
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Orig-Foto-Flugzeug-Airplane-Russland-/360619553576

Very interesting.
Especialy the last one with the open engine bay.

Four high-resolution photos from ebay.de, showing some details of nose area on (unfortunately) wrecked aircraft:

MiG-3, two photos of same aircraft:
(http://s17.postimg.org/4kfdzp7tn/Mi_G_3_159.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4kfdzp7tn/)(http://s24.postimg.org/w9rvyz7zl/Mi_G_3_160.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w9rvyz7zl/)

I-16 type 29, a pair of aircraft side by side, photographed from two directions:
(http://s24.postimg.org/iz8mj76sx/type_29_29.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/iz8mj76sx/)(http://s24.postimg.org/pwgl0y78x/type_29_30.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/pwgl0y78x/)

John

Hi John,
thank you for sharing.
It could be an idea, when one doesn't know the bort numbers for a model... :)
Regards
Massimo

Yet another photo (which I just found on ebay.de this week) of a much-photographed, ski-and-RS-82-equipped, early Yak-1:

(http://s12.postimg.org/6ti5fd9yh/Yak_1_skis_12.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/6ti5fd9yh/)

I'm really curious why this particular aircraft was photographed so many different times by so many different people, but by now the answer to that question is probably lost forever!

John

Perhaps it was an experimental version, the first ski-equipped Yak-1?

Regards,

Jason

Hi,
are the soldiers German or Russian?
Regards
Massimo

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/vadasz/198046A7A5BE3C087_zpse3de0a9a.jpg)

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/vadasz/2377145348D2F69609_zpsd87ebdb8.jpg)

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/vadasz/18559442953D022702_zps3b2a63da.jpg)

(http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h257/vadasz/1324544C695134698A_zpsf178525c.gif)

Thank you!
Seem Germans, isn't it? The source is German ebay too... so, this looks a plane captured in flight conditions.
Regards
Massimo

Hi, here is an interesting MiG-3:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Sowjet-Jagdflugzeug-MIG3-Beute-mit-deutscher-Kennung-al6-/00/s/NjA2WDgxNg==/z/mv4AAOSwVFlT8lMY/$_57.JPG)

Do you think it was repainted yellow?
Thanks to Vitaliy Timoshenko for the link.

Regards
Massimo

Hi guys,

not a contribution, but rather a request - Now that Amodel has brought out its new AIR-6 kit, are there any photos out there showing such a plane captured by the German army? I consider putting one into a diorama..

Any help would be appreciated!

Cheers,
Christian

Few photos of various Russian aircraft I have found online.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/il4%20asd_zps4wb6vk2z.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/il4%20asd_zps4wb6vk2z.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtga_zpsisqp6mrj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtga_zpsisqp6mrj.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjht_zpsy4noax4y.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjht_zpsy4noax4y.jpg.html)

 (http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/ooo_zpsxj90vrlq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/ooo_zpsxj90vrlq.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfttt_zpsx28qycyi.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfttt_zpsx28qycyi.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/lklk_zpstxyqeydx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/lklk_zpstxyqeydx.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/aaaa_zpslqc2m32a.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/aaaa_zpslqc2m32a.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/kkkkkkkkkkkkk_zps5ukiyofg.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/kkkkkkkkkkkkk_zps5ukiyofg.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/cobra_zpsqcsxtoeb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/cobra_zpsqcsxtoeb.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/uuuuu_zpsskgzs1ck.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/uuuuu_zpsskgzs1ck.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjhtq_zpslaxulsxc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjhtq_zpslaxulsxc.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtg_zpshvtkryad.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtg_zpshvtkryad.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tttt_zpsj18i86om.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tttt_zpsj18i86om.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjh_zpsbn6nrghs.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/hjh_zpsbn6nrghs.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfvvv_zpsy8qj4riw.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfvvv_zpsy8qj4riw.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtddd_zpsqjwy8rtf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtddd_zpsqjwy8rtf.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtqqq_zpsdd5w5oez.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtqqq_zpsdd5w5oez.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfggg_zpsejbwthkf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfggg_zpsejbwthkf.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgflll_zpswck6ibim.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgflll_zpswck6ibim.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtsss_zpshyf3yapz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtsss_zpshyf3yapz.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtgaf_zpsm4efkxal.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtgaf_zpsm4efkxal.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfddd_zpsgasccni1.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfddd_zpsgasccni1.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtnnn_zpsvsclb35n.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtnnn_zpsvsclb35n.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgteee_zps1fs7jhxv.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgteee_zps1fs7jhxv.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtvvv_zpsgxco5nkp.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtvvv_zpsgxco5nkp.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtfff_zpsplfjcxfo.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgtfff_zpsplfjcxfo.jpg.html)

thanks for that, some I have seen before, this Airacobra is a neat find

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/cobra_zpsqcsxtoeb.jpg)

ex-RAF, not sky band, and serial AH674?  
this looks to be in Day Fighter Scheme,  as the Temperate Land Scheme have sky section under tailplane.  
The large stars are of note, as the British applied ones usually had a black outline.  Coloured rudder maybe?
Mentioned here http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanestest/board/index.php?topic=239.90

The B-25
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/tgfttt_zpsx28qycyi.jpg)

looks to be one of the J models delivered in VVS specified colours.   Shame more isn't visible.

Nice selection of photographs - thank you for posting!

Regards,

Jason

From this link they list it as a 31 IAP?

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpropjet.ucoz.ru%2Fforum%2F11-13-2&edit-text=


Also another photo of #23 in the same post not sure if they are listing it as a 31 IAP as well. The stripe on the wing is different.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/0643493_zpsxuaudusq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/0643493_zpsxuaudusq.jpg.html)

Did a quick search of this group & came up with this link with a few photos.

https://fotki.yandex.ru/users/panferov-kazakov/tags/31%20%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BF

Number 23 is an unknown unit.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/6110284_zpsgokv8nem.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/6110284_zpsgokv8nem.jpg.html)

Hi Rodney, thank you for the interesting links.
None of these profiles of 23 seems to correspond well to the photo, the spinner and the tail star are different.
Regards
Massimo

Hi Barney,
really nice pictures. I like especially belly landed Cobra, I never saw it before.
We spent here some time in discussion while colorizing that belly landed Il-2  http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1912.0 (http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1912.0)
Regards,
    66misos

Hi,
http://postimage.org/image/l9hddz6qv/ (http://postimage.org/image/l9hddz6qv/)

interestingly, the 'f' mark on the nose seems not to have a white background with red letter,  nor a white letter on camo background, that are the possibilities shown on the MBI monograph. The round mark seems a medium color, as medium blue, possibly with the letter in red.


Should planes of 31 IAP have white stripes on the wings?
Regards
Massimo

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/6110284_zpsgokv8nem.jpg)

compared to model profile artwork, is not the top of fin possibly red, note it's similar tone to stars, but darker than the AMT-12 visible?

(http://s15.postimg.org/8uuldnf8r/La_5_F_1.jpg)

It was my mistake assuming when the Russian model site had the two photos in the same post that they were from the same unit. Based off the profiles I would say no stripe on the wing of 31 IAP.

Hi Rodney,
I don't think. It's not identical to the shade of the star, and there is a small light portion visible behind the star, just above the long white line. So I think that it's simply dark grey, repainted or better preserved than on the fuselage.
Regards
Massimo

Hi all,
Vitaliy has sent a link to a post with a P-39 and a Po-2 with a beautiful eagle emblem, I think of V. Sirotin.
http://forums.airforce.ru/do-1945/6160-orel-na-samolete-p-39-aircobra-vyacheslava-sirotina/ (http://forums.airforce.ru/do-1945/6160-orel-na-samolete-p-39-aircobra-vyacheslava-sirotina/)
Regards
Massimo

Hi Massimo,
interesting link and funny comment there...

That eagle was quite popular symbol, it is also on this La-7:
(http://forums.airforce.ru/attachments/do-1945/59154d1416073775-sultan.jpg/)

And the source of that picture is - american pork stew can:
(http://forums.airforce.ru/attachments/do-1945/59153d1416073750-img_294976_58234.jpg/)

Regards,
   66misos

Hi Misos,
yes, popular indeed, even on some Il-2s.
I think that the La-7 was the one of Amet Khan.
Is it from a can of meat? Too bad... if the plane is the can, the pilot can only be the meat.
Regards
Massimo

Massimo, that is indeed Sultan Ahmet-Khan's La-7, and Tovarish Ahmet-Khan in the cockpit.

Regards,

Jason

Hi Jason, I remembered the photo because of the discussion on a profile of EP showing the plane without any arrow.
Regards
Massimo

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/0_d3c20_5563f48e_XL_zpst5jyw3dg.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/0_d3c20_5563f48e_XL_zpst5jyw3dg.jpg.html)

Really a nice photo, I hadn't seen it before. Pity that the number is unreadable.
Seems that the front part was repainted, while the rear one and the wings are rather faded.
The tail wheel doors are lacking, probably the tail wheel was fixed in extended position.
What is the source of this image?
Regards
Massimo

http://www.photosight.ru/photos/4615327/

Google translation.

44th year, is already on the margins of Europe. The Red Army is rapidly becoming saturated, it is felt in the words of individuals pilots. Somewhere among them on the photo and my grandfather. Machine - fighter La-7


https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.photosight.ru%2Fphotos%2F4615327%2F&edit-text=

That's an La-7 - look at the nose. That's interesting about the tail wheel; I didn't think they fixed the tail wheels on any of the La-7 fighter versions (it was fixed on the La-7UTI trainer version, but that was postwar anyway).

Regards,

Jason

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la-7_zpsmcglkmnk.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/uti%20la-7_zpsmcglkmnk.png.html)



http://yandex.ru/images/search?pin=1&img_url=http%3A%2F%2Fvif2ne.ru%2Fnvi%2Fforum%2Ffiles%2FZaika%2F(100403002748)_La7_UTI_bn_42kopirovanie.jpg&uinfo=sw-1536-sh-960-ww-1536-wh-960-pd-1.2499949932098388-wp-16x10_1920x1200&_=1427041871021&viewport=wide&p=46&text=%D0%9B%D0%B0-7&noreask=1&pos=1401&rpt=simage&lr=103368


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/LA%205%207%20Russian/untitled_zpssloyr9j5.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/LA%205%207%20Russian/untitled_zpssloyr9j5.png.html)

http://yandex.ru/images/search?pin=1&img_url=http%3A%2F%2Fimg11.nnm.me%2F9%2Fd%2F4%2F4%2Fa%2Fb3ed45619ee4814061186d37e52.jpg&uinfo=sw-1536-sh-960-ww-1536-wh-960-pd-1.2499949932098388-wp-16x10_1920x1200&_=1427042586554&viewport=wide&p=63&text=%D0%9B%D0%B0-7&noreask=1&pos=1914&rpt=simage&lr=103368


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/untitled%20aa_zpsfuqg0zva.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/untitled%20aa_zpsfuqg0zva.png.html)

http://yandex.ru/images/search?pin=1&img_url=http%3A%2F%2Fvif2ne.ru%2Fnvi%2Fforum%2Ffiles%2FZaika%2F(100403002657)_AT_Teksan_NebidDag_1951kopirovanie.jpg&uinfo=sw-1536-sh-960-ww-1515-wh-828-pd-1.2499949932098388-wp-16x10_1920x1200&_=1427042875631&viewport=wide&p=72&text=%D0%9B%D0%B0-7&noreask=1&pos=2172&rpt=simage&lr=103368


(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/captured%20il4_zpsgsph5cns.png) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/captured%20il4_zpsgsph5cns.png.html)


http://popgun.ru/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=39417&start=120

the AT-6 photo is great, shame the serial is obscured.

in the link there is a sidebar on the left, I noticed this, looks to be an LA-5FN (FN logo on cowl?)  in Black/Green uppersurface?   This may have been posted before?

(http://i60.fastpic.ru/big/2013/1029/b1/4213debe43c9e2bdc1ae314ae7b66fb1.jpg)

That is indeed an La-5FN, Troy. I intend on doing this very aeroplane, once I can find the appropriate white "57" for it.

Regards,

Jason

http://sovietwarplanes.com/board/index.php?topic=1715.0

The link was broken. Only the photo was available no other information.

Don't think I have seen the turret so far forward on the Li-2 before.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20C-47/yak-16-07_zps5nlnmazd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20C-47/yak-16-07_zps5nlnmazd.jpg.html)

I could be wrong, but this plane looks smaller than a Li-2. Could it be a DC-2?
Regards
Massimo

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/d5ba5069e9d7_zpsbnnl0ri6.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/d5ba5069e9d7_zpsbnnl0ri6.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/5e64a47a9ddc%201_zpsmumhmbdm.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/5e64a47a9ddc%201_zpsmumhmbdm.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/e2523dd39a1c_zpsodp2ksp7.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/e2523dd39a1c_zpsodp2ksp7.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/8095251e8a21_zps9kwhycaz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/8095251e8a21_zps9kwhycaz.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/5ea18a14cf70_zpstcyx3ofj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/5ea18a14cf70_zpstcyx3ofj.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/3719c28f7163_zpsgochaimc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/3719c28f7163_zpsgochaimc.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/IL-2%20STUFF/6c531677a309_zpst4s4ab22.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/IL-2%20STUFF/6c531677a309_zpst4s4ab22.jpg.html)

Really good images! I like the camo of the dc-3/Li-2, in particular. Pity that modern kits haven't raised rivets.
Regards
Massimo

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/5b886280b818_zpsjjigjfod.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/5b886280b818_zpsjjigjfod.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0bb9c56a371d_zpsspcqcn7o.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0bb9c56a371d_zpsspcqcn7o.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b5c446590292_zpska60n7x5.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b5c446590292_zpska60n7x5.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/bd19722baac2_zpstsrofj2c.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/bd19722baac2_zpstsrofj2c.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/4758a675a168_zpscqh8nxoq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/4758a675a168_zpscqh8nxoq.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/25a6aff2c764_zpsfyomchkq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/25a6aff2c764_zpsfyomchkq.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/49ccd7c16329_zpsh1xichqj.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/49ccd7c16329_zpsh1xichqj.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fdd43e536e19_zpstntz1cef.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fdd43e536e19_zpstntz1cef.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e59185b643a6_zpsftadt9w0.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e59185b643a6_zpsftadt9w0.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/02431d1f5238_zpsnrmnryvp.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/02431d1f5238_zpsnrmnryvp.jpg.html)

Some great photographs again - thank you for posting!

Regards,

Jason

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e80ceb0d2dba_zpsccrrqmdf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e80ceb0d2dba_zpsccrrqmdf.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/16655372db50_zpszsyal09o.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/16655372db50_zpszsyal09o.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a0fbcbf99cca_zpskpiuqe3y.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a0fbcbf99cca_zpskpiuqe3y.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/37518b6bd76d_zpsxamib4hy.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/37518b6bd76d_zpsxamib4hy.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a006a8e2f2aa_zpsetwfo9ci.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a006a8e2f2aa_zpsetwfo9ci.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fee2f4b3f123_zpsqfhqixrl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fee2f4b3f123_zpsqfhqixrl.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e5f429db5b15_zpsjcxc7vj4.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e5f429db5b15_zpsjcxc7vj4.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0dfbaef462c7_zpsnd4sxc6b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0dfbaef462c7_zpsnd4sxc6b.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/498053ad3060_zpsa4xw7p4j.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/498053ad3060_zpsa4xw7p4j.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fa845e29cde4_zps6jrzrtzb.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/fa845e29cde4_zps6jrzrtzb.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/92361146835c_zps3zugbivz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/92361146835c_zps3zugbivz.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/2ebd12182444_zpsomifrf7n.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/2ebd12182444_zpsomifrf7n.jpg.html)

Interesting photos again.
What type of plane is the one of the first photo? An A-20 perhaps?
Regards
Massimo

I thinks so.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e80ceb0d2dba_zpsccrrqmdf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e80ceb0d2dba_zpsccrrqmdf.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/33_DB7B_35_rear-canopy_V%20a_zpsicyykydl.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/33_DB7B_35_rear-canopy_V%20a_zpsicyykydl.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Douglas%20A-20/25_DB7B_29_radio_V_zps7prahlik.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Douglas%20A-20/25_DB7B_29_radio_V_zps7prahlik.jpg.html)

http://aussiemodeller.com.au/pages/History/Aircraft/Mead_DB7Boston.html

Some great photos of B-25 C/D's in this link.

http://zaika70.livejournal.com/2095.html

A-20's in this one.

http://zaika70.livejournal.com/10870.html

Not sure what the nose art actually is on this aircraft but it is interesting.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P-39%20Cobras/34_zps6hjlcdqp.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P-39%20Cobras/34_zps6hjlcdqp.jpg.html)

http://militera.lib.ru/memo/russian/dryagina_iv/ill.html

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/P-39%20Cobras/27_zps82qdixpw.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/P-39%20Cobras/27_zps82qdixpw.jpg.html)

http://www.scr55.narod.ru/airport/point1/1-3.htm

Interesting indeed.
About n.39, I think that the smaller dot is an eagle, but I've nothing to suggest for the bigger one.
Could you be more specific with the link? It looks to give access to a wide choice of titles in Russian.
Regards
Massimo

34th link down.

Click on the link and open in a new tab then there will be a photo in that new tab.

Russian text--->  Американский самолет ?Аэрокобра?, которым с 1943 г. была вооружена дивизия, которой командовали И. М. Дзусов, а затем А. И. Покрышкин

Translated--->American aircraft "Cobra", which in 1943 was armed division, commanded by IM zushi, then AI Pokryshkin

Wow :o A I Pokryshkin's unit.

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/c699fc387e9a_zpsilmvycpx.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/c699fc387e9a_zpsilmvycpx.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/246ccd31aeb8_zpssai17sbq.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/246ccd31aeb8_zpssai17sbq.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/131_zpsmb3wceye.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/131_zpsmb3wceye.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/1945_zps53gnxa6k.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/1945_zps53gnxa6k.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/1945_2_zpsolsjkgzs.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/1945_2_zpsolsjkgzs.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/edcd233b9590_zpsons9f4ky.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/edcd233b9590_zpsons9f4ky.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0efbaf3a3490_zps3ymcjnc9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/0efbaf3a3490_zps3ymcjnc9.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b4a9f77ece41d918c61aff582b054725_zps5tvaxz1o.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b4a9f77ece41d918c61aff582b054725_zps5tvaxz1o.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b97770313d55_zpsior8jimd.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/b97770313d55_zpsior8jimd.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/561151862db6_zpslahom9iz.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/561151862db6_zpslahom9iz.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a7ffd2655df8_zpsxityg8ot.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/a7ffd2655df8_zpsxityg8ot.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e0cae90d6311_zpsjybwzkt9.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/e0cae90d6311_zpsjybwzkt9.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/cb6f31173442_zpslpgdgq2t.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/cb6f31173442_zpslpgdgq2t.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/3445b8492dc4_zps9ya2sqii.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/3445b8492dc4_zps9ya2sqii.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/44bb04f0662e_zpst4z1fcy7.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/44bb04f0662e_zpst4z1fcy7.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/various%20Russian%20aircraft/ca0d9b474f8a_zps0sqb4o1b.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/various%20Russian%20aircraft/ca0d9b474f8a_zps0sqb4o1b.jpg.html)

Hi,
interesting gallery again!
Do you know any more about the Lavochkin numbered 46, please?
Regards
Massimo

I have stumbled across that photo several times recently & didn't think much about it. I saved it finally & I have been trying to find it again on some of the Russian sites I was looking at. I can't find it now no matter how hard I try. I will keep an eye out for it I don't recall if there was any text with it.
Most of these photos I have posted of late have nothing other than the photo.

Not the original source of the photo this one has some names with it though.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http://soviet-aces-1936-53.ru/korea/aces/vishnykov.htm&usg=ALkJrhjNC9b9PvXTT-CGs9qvi8A8uGr4rw

Dear Friends,
   if you go on EBay.de, and digit in the research box the words "farbdia flugzeug smolensk" you will be able to see 12 images, of which nine are 240 x 240 DPI Agfa color images of captured, and damaged, Russian planes from 1941.
   I find these new images fascinating.
   If you just digit "farbdia smolensk" you get 157 images of varying interest, but all of them in color.
   Hope you will enjoy these slides as much as I did
Best regards
Daniele

Those are interesting - Thank you for the information! I didn't see one of an Il-2, my favourite, though.

Regards,

Jason

Interesting in that Americans sitting Russian aircraft.

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=40205

A couple of very interesting photos, posted recently by Alexander Nevsorow on his FB profile (https://www.facebook.com/slava.trudu):

(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13239878_1139489222779768_3221465574760758956_n.jpg?oh=60d6cd1814a00523f6a02b5209a63d93&oe=57C8E3F8)

(https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13237860_1139489792779711_4494367060742354418_n.jpg?oh=841a74d5ceeb01c5e1cb5e51eaa9da60&oe=57D26847)

A color diapo of a I-15bis (link from Timoshenko)
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-2-WK-Farb-DIA-Ostfront-Flugzeug-russische-Jager-Kennung-Nr-51-bei-Kiew-/122392239452?hash=item1c7f255d5c:g:9SAAAOSwhQhYxBZT (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-2-WK-Farb-DIA-Ostfront-Flugzeug-russische-Jager-Kennung-Nr-51-bei-Kiew-/122392239452?hash=item1c7f255d5c:g:9SAAAOSwhQhYxBZT)

Hi guys,
Found some very interesting Li-2 photos here
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/33544284614/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/34001375490/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/34255681651/

Also check this entire collection - lots of great WWII aircraft high-quality photos (not just VVS)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133697406@N05/albums