Searching for VVS Photos

[Apex1701]

@ Massimo
Thanks for the infos but I was kidding about E.P. AII green.

All the best.

Jean

[Apex1701]

Another pic for the "banded 21" Lagg-3 here:
http://forums.airforce.ru/attachment.php?attachmentid=22587&d=1265811961

Jean

[warhawk]

Check out this sweet Mig-3 from avia-n-aero.ru......

http://www.avia-n-aero.ru/coa/_files/photogallery/252274BEEF498E08B4.jpg

[marluc]

Thanks Warhawk,it?s a very good photo,the details of this Mig-3 can be seen very clearly.Greetings.

Martin

[Massimo Tessitori]

Very clear image indeed!
Massimo

[Greg C.]

Hi guys,

..Who knows maybe EP is right after all :-))

Jean

Hi Jean,
this photo is interesting, but not new. There is some difficulty to interpretate it, but take in mind that the plane could be not completely painted and the light parts could be the yellow putty utilized for the fabric, or fresh and strongly-reflective paint.
According to some sources, green was painted after black.
There are cases, particularly of photos of Yaks, where the (supposed) green appears very light. This is yet unexplained.
Massimo

That is a very interesting collection of pictures!
As to the one in question, the aircraft pretty clearly is an LaGG-3, unless they have thrust a "3" onto the production line behind a "5" for some unknown reason!  I know E.P. is not exactly the most popular character around here, and for good reason based on his insulting, demeaning comments.  But his behavior, or one's opinion of him should not impact an objective assessment of the questions surrounding the colors we're talking about.  Having played-around a bit with the AKAN paints I have, to my eye, they cannot be made to represent the contrast I routinely see in pictures like this one.  Furthermore, I don't think lightening due to sun exposure or weathering sufficiently explains this lack of contrast, otherwise, I would expect to see more variation in contrast in pictures of aircraft fresh from the factory, like presentation airplanes, or in production-line photos like this one.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Greg,

Having played-around a bit with the AKAN paints I have, to my eye, they cannot be made to represent the contrast I routinely see in pictures like this one.  Furthermore, I don't think lightening due to sun exposure or weathering sufficiently explains this lack of contrast, otherwise, I would expect to see more variation in contrast in pictures of aircraft fresh from the factory, like presentation airplanes, or in production-line photos like this one.

To tell the truth, I have the doubt that some shades that I see on my chips could be too dark for my perception, so I would use some lightened shade.
But about judging shades from photos, please have a look to this:










They are all of Finnish origin, and all of the same plane. Confusing, isn't it?

Massimo

[marluc]

Pretty confusing Massimo,these photos shows how wrong we could be,trying to make an interpretation of a colour scheme from just one photo.In the last three pictures,the Lagg is the same place and the colour shades are not the same!!!
Greetings.

Martin

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Martin,
we could add that the blue under the nose and inner part of wings looks much darker than the one on the gear doors, legs and rear fuselage (within the same photo).
Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,
there are three color photos of SB and I-16 in the update of June 8 and 16

http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/

Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

http://elhangardetj.blogspot.com/

Postwar Spanish SB.











Massimo

[KL]

Hi Massimo,
thanks for the link and interesting photos!

First SB isn't a post war plane.  It's the first SB captured by Nationalists in February 1937 near Motril, SE Spain.  It was used by Nationalists through the civil war as a recce plane.
This plane is easily recognized by its camouflage scheme (combination of republican "sand" colour and nationalists green mottles) and "tiles" covering the openings for twin Shkas machine guns.







Cheers,
KL

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the information and drawing.
So, I suppose that the planes of the following photos had Luftwaffe-style camouflage.
I suppose that it was not standardized, I see the rudders in different colors in the photo of 3 flying planes.
Do you know if any profile of these planes is available, please?
Massimo

[KL]

Hi Massimo,
There is a text about Nationalist?s SB bombers and post SCW SB in one of ?Mir Aviatsiyi? issues from 2005.  Author of the text is Alesandro Vereira ? he was a member of the old ?Modeling the planes of VVS? forum.  Dravings I posted earlier are from this text.

Motril SB is interesting for and your Republican colours table:  It shows that SB bombers were repainted as soon as they arrived in Spain and that they were painted with Spanish colours.  That ?sand? or ?ochre? colour can not be a Soviet colour.  In my opinion all colours on Isaak Montoya?s fragments that aren?t factory applied, are of the Spanish origin and not Soviet.

Profiles of the ?Motril SB? are also available at http://basilzolotov.com/tag/sb/

Do you know if any profile of these planes is available, please?

This is the same "Motril SB", captured in February 1937, but in ?German Style? camouflage in 1939.  Other SBs captured at the end of Civil War were painted the same way in 1939-40.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Konstantin,
thank you for the answer, the link is highly recommandable, about 15 good profiles of SB and many other ones of other planes. I have already seen those 3 profiles of MiG-3 on a Russian magazine.

About the fragments of Montoya... it's possible that those colors are Spanish, but I think that only the lighter green of the SB was. If SB was painted light grey or silver outside , the layer should be visible in chipped parts  between the zinc chromate and the dark green layer.
About the pieces of I-16, I suppose that they were worn Soviet planes, and it's easy that they were repainted to delete the markings before delivery.
Of course, when we speak of brown and ochre, of course they were Spanish colors.
Besides, it's likely that Spanish colors were different between the Republican and Nationalist side. The German-like colors could have been Spanish imitations of German colors.  Do you know if there is any deeper answer to this?
Best regards
Massimo