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Most accurate Il-2 plans?
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Author Topic: Most accurate Il-2 plans?  (Read 2672 times)
Psy06
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« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2021, 02:47:50 PM »

I hope he'll do it of course. Does he exactly know when the metallic ailerons (type without counterweights) were replaced with fabric-skinned ones on production line of Zavod 18?
Ask him https://www.facebook.com/irodiono
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2021, 03:26:03 PM »

Does he read English?
Do you know his personal mail? I haven't a Facebook account.
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John Thompson
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2021, 03:54:06 PM »

This is the same Ivan Rodionov who compiled the chronology of Soviet aviation:
https://warwick.ac.uk/fac/soc/economics/staff/mharrison/aviaprom/about/

"Contacts" gives his email address as:
irodiono@mail.ru

The missing letter "v" seems to be correct - that's how it shows on the link. Probably an 8-character limit on the personal part of the address, the same reason my personal email address is missing a letter "o".

John
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righidan
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2021, 01:02:27 PM »

Dear Friends,
   Recently it was discussed what are the most accurate scale drawings for the Il-2, and Mr. Linevitch said that the old drawings made by Prof. Ivan Rodionov that appeared in Modelist Konstructor dozens of years ago, are still the most accurate.
   I have just received the following drawings from Prof. Rodionov that has permitted them to be published on Massimo site, as public domain.
   They have been made using a lot of new material from many sources, collected in recent years.












   Just one caveat: as I have well learnt studying the I-16, the variations of Russian airplanes that can be distinguished externally, are many.
   For the Il-2, the variations are probably about THREE HUNDRED!
   And the main ones are more than ONE HUNDRED, so this drawing is just representative for one of these versions in general with correct dimensions and shape. It should be extended with rivets, bolts and some small details for the certain plant and material used as well as with the plant number and the production date.
   I suppose that we all hope that many more will follow, but as it is a long and complicated work, we all have to use the virtue of patience.
Best regards
Daniele Righi
« Last Edit: February 13, 2021, 01:04:55 PM by righidan » Logged

Daniele
John Thompson
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2021, 03:07:49 PM »

Impressive - thank you very much! I'll hope to save these and resize them to 1/72 scale if necessary.

I'm also interested in all those I-16 variations - is any of that published or posted somewhere?  Shocked

Best regards;
John
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2021, 04:03:51 PM »

Hi Daniele,
thank you for the drawings, they look really excellent.  It's good to know that the documents on this plane will have an important addition.
Regards
Massimo
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Psy06
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2021, 05:03:22 PM »

Wow, great!
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2021, 09:29:12 PM »

Really. Eventually I can add a reply to the post on the kit Zvezda on britmodeller, but I can't find it between the reviews any more.
Regards
Massimo
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Psy06
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2021, 10:17:00 PM »

Really. Eventually I can add a reply to the post on the kit Zvezda on britmodeller, but I can't find it between the reviews any more.
Regards
Massimo

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235061310-148-ilyushin-il-2-shturmovik-family-by-zvezda-released/page/5/&tab=comments#comment-3938893
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2021, 10:51:08 PM »

Thank you, I've posted a link to this topic.
But I still wait to see a photo of this variation with counterweights on a wing with this armament.
Regards
Massimo
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learstang
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« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2021, 12:45:54 AM »

Thank you for posting that drawing of the Il-2!

Best Regards,

Jason
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"I'll sleep when I'm dead."

- Warren William Zevon
Psy06
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« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2021, 08:05:37 AM »

Thank you, I've posted a link to this topic.
But I still wait to see a photo of this variation with counterweights on a wing with this armament.
Regards
Massimo
There may be no photographs, many things are restored according to drawings and reports of factories, lists of changes in design were published in these reports. There are still design change bulletins that came as an attachment to a specific datasheet or instruction manual. The bulletins sometimes contained pictures and drawings. I suppose Rodionov got the detailed changelog across all factories, otherwise where did 300 modifications come from. To get an exhaustive archive of photographic materials on such a number of differences is simply beyond the limits of human strength.

I will give an example of how I myself reconstructed many years ago the appearance of the SB M-105 in the version of a dive bomber.

At first, there were only a small number of photographs from books and the Internet, which made me think that the planes in these photographs do not fit any description or just mention in books and magazines. I made a list of the oddities in the appearance of these planes and began to look for references in archival correspondence. Then I found a mention in Maslov's book about dive experiments. This led me to believe that the planes in the photo have features associated with diving. I started looking for archival texts related to dive and SB. And I found it turned out that dive bombers were being built in series in large numbers. Then I found a list of changes for №22 plant, which said what exactly was changed in serial production. And in conclusion, I found a detailed description of these changes in the one of technical description of the SB. Nothing separately described the SB m105 dive bomber as it was in reality, in order to get a complete picture it was necessary to add a huge amount of scattered data, and only then the puzzle was formed Smiley

The situation is a bit of the opposite, but the bottom line is that the reconstruction was essentially done according to documents, not a photo. And the key photos were found much later and fully confirmed my description, a hug from such photos was a photo of a pilot cockpit with a gunsight, the presence of which I described fully analytically. Although of course in some places the photos played a role, for example, I first identified in the photo of the cockpits the presence of rocket firing controls, and only much later was comprehensive information on this issue found.

This is about such an airplane.



Source - https://warspot.ru/12486-bit-tanki-protivnika-do-polnogo-ih-unichtozheniya?fbclid=IwAR3Qp_pMRD7_TQ09ErlHjwZsIkVaMMCKbNKo2mQ4AlqRcfcbCKhGP-sYLWo
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 11:07:21 AM by Psy06 » Logged
righidan
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« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2021, 11:26:22 AM »

Dear friends,
   I have to ask for your patience, as I did not explained me well.
   The drawings I received from Prof. Rodionov represent the shape of the single seater as accurately as possible, but as a synthetic image of the several types of single-seater Il-2 simultaneously.
   It does not correspond to a particular aircraft but is aimed to show the shape and dimensions.
   So it has an unrealistic combination of large bomb loading hatches, Vya-23 cannons and the counter-weights on both external and internal ailerons.
   We will have to wait for drawings corresponding to a certain plant with a plant number and the time of production and use.
   I enclose a photo of an Il-2 with a combination of Vya and both counter-weights.

   I must say that Mr. Linevitch post tell us a lot of how research must be done, and how archival research is a fundamental part of it.
   To get near the truth we must collect many information from many sources, and compare them without prejudice and always ready to learn new things.
Regards
Daniele
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 11:31:25 AM by righidan » Logged

Daniele
John Thompson
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« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2021, 04:41:29 PM »

Very interesting, and thank you for all the information - it's much appreciated! I suppose we'll never have an Il-2 "encyclopedia" with all of those 300 variants detailed, or even the ~100 main ones...  Cry Jason, if you need something to do... Wink

John
« Last Edit: February 14, 2021, 08:08:49 PM by John Thompson » Logged
Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2021, 09:02:50 PM »

Hi Daniele,
thank you for the clarification.
The image is very interesting and unusual, the small stars and the shining propeller give the idea of a prewar livery. Have you other photos of the same plane or other informations on it?
I suspect that this plane was built as a testbed many months before the operative use of the VYa-23 guns , so it still had some early characteristics.

Hi Psy,
your work of research on the SB 2M105 was well done and the chips of the puzzle went together.  One has to make a comparison of all the available sources. Of course, absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.
Late SB are important, it's a pity that there is not an adequate kit of these versions. I hoped that ICM would have continued their SB releases, but it was not so.

Regards
Massimo
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