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Chinese I-16 Type 5 marking on the wings?
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Author Topic: Chinese I-16 Type 5 marking on the wings?  (Read 1895 times)
steph40
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« on: December 05, 2020, 01:35:11 PM »

Hello,

I'm working on a 1/48 Chinese Polikarpov I-16 Type 5, P2105 flown by Liu Chi Sheng visible here almost in the middle of the page: http://massimotessitori.altervista.org/sovietwarplanes/pages/i16/type5/type5early.htm.
So, I'm a little confused with markings: it seems that the Chinese markings were put above and below the wings but Begemot decals sheet 48-021 "Polikarpov I-16 family" and BestFong decals sheet 48018 precise that the markings were only below the wings of this specific airraft...
Any photo to confirm that or is it a historic fact ?

TIA, regards  Smiley

Stéph
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1/48 aircraft of the Aces
xan
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« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2020, 06:37:45 PM »

The only pic I founded is that one and they are type 10, but no roundels in this one.

but tails stripes deseapered too so perhaps it was not the same thing on type 5....

Xan
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Massimo Tessitori
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« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2020, 11:04:23 PM »

Hi,
I can't say for sure but when I helped Tapani to make color drawings of I-15bis and 153 in Chinese markings, I made the idea that at the beginning the planes had national markings both below and above the wings and the striped rudder, then the too visible marks were often deleted when the war went worse.
About those planes in the photo, here is the comment that I wrote on my page on Type 10  following the suggestions of BLG:
Quote
A separate history is that of the 10 Type 10 of the semi-independant Chinese province of Xinjiang, ruled by the filo-Soviet Lord of War Sheng Shicai since 1935. Its flag was a six-arms yellow star on a red background.

The planes were intended not to fight against Japaneses, but against rebels of many ethnics.

Two I-16s were employed in the filo-comunist flight academy, the other ones by the Air Force of the Xinjiang between 1940 and 1942. After 1942, Sheng Shicai thought that the URSS was to be defeated, became allied with the Kuomintang of Chiang Kai Shek and the planes were given to his Air Force.

The planes of the Academy brought a yellow six-braced star with a white drawing starting from its tips on the fuselage, Chinese white-blue roundels under the wings and small two-digit numbers on their rudder. The closer plane seems to have a larger number, perhaps an original Soviet AF number deleted with some lighter shade.

Regards
Massimo
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BLG
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« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2020, 10:19:19 AM »

Hi Everybody,
I have no certain answer to Stephane . However, for this plane, I used roundels on the extrados, as they are provided by Amodel for this plane, and more seriously because, at that time, March 1938, the majority of the photos of other chinese planes  found in "A history of chinese aviation" by Lennart Anderson show roundels on extrados.



For the Xinjiang star, I think that it was yellow rather than red as I explained here , in french, in the building of my type 10: Type 10

and that I translate here:
Xinjiang, in Chinese 新疆; "New frontier". is the westernmost province of china, populated by various ethnic groups, predominantly Muslim, borders with Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, and to the north with Mongolia and Russia. These planes were therefore not intended to fight against the Japanese,



This province was only theoretically Chinese at that time. It was ruled by Sheng Shicai, a warlord, who founded on August 1, 1935 on 民众 反帝 联合会; "Anti-imperialist war front", completely subservient to the Soviet Communist Party.
The flag chosen by Sheng Shicai was a 6-pointed star evoking the 6 axes of his political program. It uses the colors of the Chinese Communist Party, a yellow symbol on a red background which has been preserved for the current flag of China.


The Soviets had already supplied R5 and U2  to create an air force that was used by Sheng Shicai to fight against the Uighur separatists and indirectly to protect the Soviet borders from the Kazakh, Tajiks or Kyrgyz rebels,

These I-16 served from 40 to 42 in a flight school that was part of a military academy created by Sheng Shicai for the benefit of the CCP. 25 students were to become the first Chinese Communist pilots, the pilots of the Chinese Air Force being for the moment all nationalists.
From 41, Soviet aid declined with the start of the GGP and early 42, Sheng Shicai thought that the USSR was going to be defeated. So he got closer to the Kuomintang and in the summer. 42, the academy was closed, the 160 CCP members, including all pilots arrested, and in a sign of allegiance 10 I-16 were handed over to the Nationalist Air Force.

Here are the photos of the ceremony.




A glance at these photos shows that the profiles and decals (Begemot, Kora, Eduard Bestfong are all wrong to varying degrees



The main error, repeated in many of the profiles and the Begemot and Kora decals, is the drawing. The star is badly oriented and the arrangement of the rays is asymmetrical.
The designers of Best fong and Edouard took the time to look at the photos since the drawing is exact.
Moreover, those of Eduard noticed that the color of the star is different from that of the rays, darker on one photo, lighter on the other. They didn't make the second mistake of making the drawing in white. Instead of doing a little historical investigation, however, they assumed there was a correlation between the Soviet Red Star and the Xinjiang Star and represent it in red. As stated above, this 6 points star is not related to the soviet 5 points star and I think that it had the same clor than on the flag, yellow.

For those who are interested in this episode of the History, I have taken the information from pages 18 to 21 of "Red Wings over the Yalu" by Xiaming Zhang. Although the title of this book refers to the Chinese pilots engaged in the Korean War, the entire first part is devoted to the early days of CCP aviation.
It can be downloaded here:
https://epdf.tips/red-wings-over-the-yalu-china-the-soviet-union-and-the-air-war-in-korea.html.
There is also a small paragraph on page 83 of "A History of Chinese Aviation" by Lennart Andersson
which speaks only of 2 I-16 provided by the USSR to the academy. But one can imagine that the other 8 I-16s had served in the Xinjiang Air Force.

Here is the result in B / W




and in color.



Regards
Bernard
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 10:29:51 AM by BLG » Logged

steph40
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« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 06:58:03 PM »

Hello,

Thank you for your replies  Smiley

Regards
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1/48 aircraft of the Aces
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